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[Mike_Russell]

Hi. I have a tour coming up where I'll be micing a grand piano. I've mixed grands before for smaller shows using condensers but want to know if anyone has any experience with the EW PM40T system and what were your thoughts? Also using an omni directional mic system in a live environment with wedges? Also open to suggestions to get the best gain before feedback on this as there is a 4 piece band backing as well and the lid will be open full stick from what I gather.Thanks.
Michael

[Matt Errend]

Hi. I have a tour coming up where I'll be micing a grand piano. I've mixed grands before for smaller shows using condensers but want to know if anyone has any experience with the EW PM40T system and what were your thoughts? Also using an omni directional mic system in a live environment with wedges? Also open to suggestions to get the best gain before feedback on this as there is a 4 piece band backing as well and the lid will be open full stick from what I gather.Thanks.
Michael

It's an awesome mic that sounds fantastic. The really remarkable thing about it is how good it sounds with the lid closed, and because the elements are so close to the strings I wouldn't be all that concerned about GBF. Even with the lid at full stick, I would just watch your wedge placement and you should be fine.

[Thomas Lamb]

It's an awesome mic that sounds fantastic. The really remarkable thing about it is how good it sounds with the lid closed, and because the elements are so close to the strings I wouldn't be all that concerned about GBF. Even with the lid at full stick, I would just watch your wedge placement and you should be fine.

+1 that mic is awesome! It's the mic you want when your in a hurry! You just don't have to do much and it just sounds great!!

[Keith Broughton]

It's a great sounding system and in situations where I need a lot of monitor level, I use a Barcus  contact pick up for the wedge and Earthworks for the mains.

[Jim McKeveny]

Helpinstill pickup is the best for this app. GBF vs. any mic system is astounding.

[Jay Barracato]

Personally, I would not give up sound quality in the quest for gain before feedback until I was sure I was going to need that gain.

In order to decide it would help to know if you are going to be touring your own piano, if it will have a consistent placement on stage, and what the monitor needs are for the person playing it.

[Mike_Russell]

Hey thanks guys. That's a huge help hearing all the great things about this system. A few facts about the tour. The pianist plays with the lid open full stick from what I've gathered. There is a drummer, guitarist, bassist and a key player as well on deck. Most all venues are PAC's (totally new type of tour for me since I mix rock/pop acts mostly but have done some big band and orchestral stuff in my past). We also have a lapel mic for him so he can talk to the audience. This does NOT hit the wedges and it's not on during the performance. I'd try to talk them into IEM's but the piano player is an 11 year old prodigy. He'd out grow them in no time.

[Jay Barracato]

I have done a lot of PACs and many seem to be set up more for spoken word/lower spl music than full on rock and roll. However, I don't see wedges at a sane level as being a problem.

You may want to consider placing the piano wedge on the hinge side of the top. Even pointed forward it shouldn't spill too much into the audience.

[Jim McKeveny]

I have used the Earthworks system, 2 x 414's, 2 x KSM's, 2 x SCX25's, and the Helpinstill 180. All on Steinway Model D's, lid closed, and with a wedge on the hinge side of the piano. same music selection on each show: solo piano, piano + voice, piano + orchestra, piano + voice + orchestra + rock band. My overall rankings would be:

Helpinstill
414's
Earthworks
KSM
SCX

Top of the line Helpinstill 280 costs 1/2 what the Earthworks costs, the 180 is downright cheap.and is more even note-to-note and sounds consistent over all kinds of dynamic conditions. It does not get increasingly muddy as stage volume creeps up, a problem with all mic systems.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I have used the Earthworks system, 2 x 414's, 2 x KSM's, 2 x SCX25's, and the Helpinstill 180. All on Steinway Model D's, lid closed, and with a wedge on the hinge side of the piano. same music selection on each show: solo piano, piano + voice, piano + orchestra, piano + voice + orchestra + rock band. My overall rankings would be:

Helpinstill
414's
Earthworks
KSM
SCX

Top of the line Helpinstill 280 costs 1/2 what the Earthworks costs, the 180 is downright cheap.and is more even note-to-note and sounds consistent over all kinds of dynamic conditions. It does not get increasingly muddy as stage volume creeps up, a problem with all mic systems.

Yup.  All well and good.

I'll just stick with the "57 in the hole", thanks very much.

[Darin Ulmer]

+1 for the Helpinstill.  I have provided for a Christmas tour for the past 10 years centered around a pianist, mainly in PAC's, (with orch & vox) and two years ago we began using the Helpinstill with excellent results.  Howerver, instead of using the little three channel passive mixer that comes with the pickup we run three lines to FOH and add a mic on the second hole as well.  For solo piano I lean a little more to the mic and with the orchestra more on the Helpinstill. 

The lowest bass octave is excellent with the Helpinstill. 
The placement of the pickup is very important though so if the first time you try it the piano sounds like a Rhodes don't give up. 

GBF is great.  No blead.  But it does need some nice reverb.

[gordonmcgregor]

 
 
"The placement of the pickup is very important though so if the first time you try it the piano sounds like a Rhodes don't give up." 

Therein lies the problem the pick up systems work well If you have time to play with them or are using the same piano, The PM40 works as well as most other mics and better than many, there is a suprising amount of tweakability in the mic system if you need it but if time is short it's the closest you can get to a point and go system for a piano I've come across and it is a lot less critical of piano type as well.
As far as monitors are concerned roll the bass off a bit or use a small wedge at the piano and try and keep the piano away from the drums as much as you can (cymbal wash as much as anything else) and it will suprise you how loud the stage can get even with the lid open

[Tom Young]

 
"The placement of the pickup is very important though so if the first time you try it the piano sounds like a Rhodes don't give up." 

Therein lies the problem the pick up systems work well If you have time to play with them or are using the same piano, The PM40 works as well as most other mics and better than many, there is a suprising amount of tweakability in the mic system if you need it but if time is short it's the closest you can get to a point and go system for a piano I've come across and it is a lot less critical of piano type as well.
As far as monitors are concerned roll the bass off a bit or use a small wedge at the piano and try and keep the piano away from the drums as much as you can (cymbal wash as much as anything else) and it will suprise you how loud the stage can get even with the lid open

I would want to evaluate and compare one other offering: the DPA piano mic system with (2) 4099 cardioid mic's with magnetic mounts. It appears to offer as much (or more) placement adjustability and would logically pick up less leaked energy and/or ambience (than the Earthworks system). Cost is less than half.

[Jim McKeveny]

The DPA package is attractive and worth a go. It will also "fly out" easier than others.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I would want to evaluate and compare one other offering: the DPA piano mic system with (2) 4099 cardioid mic's with magnetic mounts. It appears to offer as much (or more) placement adjustability and would logically pick up less leaked energy and/or ambience (than the Earthworks system). Cost is less than half.

The DPA site says the 4099P (piano) system is a pair of super-cardioid elements.  Other stereo pairs available can be had with either cardioid or omni patterns.......

[gordonmcgregor]

The DPA site says the 4099P (piano) system is a pair of super-cardioid elements.  Other stereo pairs available can be had with either cardioid or omni patterns.......

My only issue with the DPAs is that for this famously clumsy idiot the little connectors on the mic end of the cable are easily damaged I DO like the sound of these and they work very well indeed but I find the PianoMic much more robust and just as good in the field, it is a one trick pony but if as in my case someone else was buying then great I'll take it G

[Tom Young]

The DPA site says the 4099P (piano) system is a pair of super-cardioid elements.  Other stereo pairs available can be had with either cardioid or omni patterns.......

Nit-picker !     

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Nit-picker !     

I was surprised to find that they were designating that particular pattern for a two-mic piano system.  I would have thought that cardioid or omni would be as good or better.

But I still place a 57 in the second or third lyre hole no matter what else gets put in there......

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