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Author Topic: LAB Sub vs USB sub  (Read 14811 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: LAB Sub vs USB sub
« Reply #10 on: July 09, 2012, 08:01:23 PM »

Ivan,
Lets say the Phase value/slope don't line up well at the xover point. Have you tried and had success using an allpass filter to correct this? I'm struggling with this myself.
Thanks,

-Matt Long
SF, CA
To be honest-I have never used (nor needed) all pass filters.  I get them to line up using delay-various crossover filter types and slopes and sometimes throw in a little eq as a "little adjustment" if needed.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Kevin McDonough

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Re: LAB Sub vs USB sub
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 06:57:15 AM »

To be honest-I have never used (nor needed) all pass filters.  I get them to line up using delay-various crossover filter types and slopes and sometimes throw in a little eq as a "little adjustment" if needed.


Hey, yeah as people have said these are two different subs for different applications, actually often used together. Not really comparable. It all depends on what tops your planning on using with the system.

The Labs go down VERY low and produce very clean bass, with a distinct lack of distortion. When you first hear a group of 4 or 6 together it sounds noticeably different than the bass you'd get from some double 18"s or similar and may take a second to get used to. This extended low end is a little wasted on live music (though nothing wrong with having super clean, low subs for that too!  ;)) but will really shine for "bass" type music: dubstep, roots, electronic music, etc.  Even some hip-hop with particularly low notes. Anything with low synth notes in the 30's will never sound the same through a reflex sub as it does with the clean hornloaded sound of a Lab or similar sub.  And not adding all those harmonics in also does wonders for your low mid as well, big deep male vocals will never sound cleaner and better in the mix because your not filling them with the mud of the harmonics of the bass!

You can also have them at a surprisingly loud volume and not really notice, its a strange phenomenon when they're playing and they don't sound all that loud, but you turn to speak to someone and their mouth moves but you cant here what they're saying, the speakers being deceptively loud and clear. Its also easy however to push them too far and blow them for the same reason, because there is no warning or desegregating of the sound as they approach their limits, its just clean clean clean...Pop.  :)

Chances are with these that you'll want to use a hornloaded top cab to get a similar SPL and throw, maybe a hornloaded 12" for the mids. However it's very hard to get the two to meet on their own. The lab sub doesn't sound great crossed over too high, and without an unfeasibly large horn the 12" wont go down much past 120Hz, so you usually need something in between, which is where a USB or other "kick" cab (ES18, HD15 etc etc) would come in. These are cabs that can sometimes play on their own when the sub content doesn't need to go to low (USB v2 and ES18 especially) but really excel at the 60-120Hz upper bass frequencies with a low sub like the lab below them.

Cant remember the crossovers off the top of my head but the labs maybe something like 30Hz up to 60 or 70Hz, then cross to the USBs to play up to 120 to 150Hz or a little higher, then cross to your top cab.

While someone sayd it's not advisable to have two different cabinets playing bass, what I'd more say is it isn't advisable to have two cabinets playing the same frequencies (mid or top as well). Long as they're crossed over properly and playing two different frequency ranges like this, then a "sub" bass cab and a "kick" bass cab often work well together.  Though admittedly it helps a LOT of they're of the same topology, i.e. both hornloaded, both bandpass, both reflex etc.  Mixing different styles of cabs can be done but presents more problems.

However as with any system like this, the key is in the crossover points and spending a day in the back garden (or yard for you guys!  :P) with a laptop and measurement mic. Testing the system, setting delays and adjusting crossover points to make sure it's all in phase at each crossover point and all works well together will work wonders for the quality of your sound.


k




« Last Edit: July 10, 2012, 07:10:00 AM by Kevin McDonough »
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Re: LAB Sub vs USB sub
« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2012, 06:57:15 AM »


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