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Author Topic: Question on sub/system setup for EDM  (Read 23316 times)

Andrew Brubaker

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2014, 10:27:22 pm »

HOWEVER in a live situation (club etc) with a GOOD system that goes down low-clean and solid-there is something to be said for the "experience".

The regular "dance beats" are just boring to me-but a good drop can be a lot of fun-and you look forward to it.

But without a system that can do it-a lot would get lost.

I agree completely.
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Andrew Brubaker

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2014, 10:36:29 pm »

But they were saying that brand "XYZ" (Very famous that EVERYBODY knows who it is) choice of speaker went lower than ours.  Ours was -3dB around 113Hz, and theirs 'said" -3dB at 56Hz (or around there).  HOWEVER if you look at THEIR OWN response graph-56Hz was more like 15dB down.  NOT 3. 

Funny you should say that...the same situation is true for the loudspeakers I am currently using (MRX525) and brings me back to my question about mid-bass smack. Would I be better served in getting mains that actually cover that freq range better or looking at a mid-bass sub solution? The only real lack in this range that I have noticed in from EDM music where there is a driving "kick" to the song. For regular rock and roll bands they have done ok.

And I'm with Tim that at the moment I will just stick with the subs I have and the range they offer though I may look at subs that will get me closer to 20hz in the near future.

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #32 on: March 03, 2014, 06:47:24 am »

Funny you should say that...the same situation is true for the loudspeakers I am currently using (MRX525) and brings me back to my question about mid-bass smack. Would I be better served in getting mains that actually cover that freq range better or looking at a mid-bass sub solution? The only real lack in this range that I have noticed in from EDM music where there is a driving "kick" to the song. For regular rock and roll bands they have done ok.

And I'm with Tim that at the moment I will just stick with the subs I have and the range they offer though I may look at subs that will get me closer to 20hz in the near future.
It is a common "desire" to simply add speakers to cover areas that people feel are "lacking".

However in reality it is not that easy-to do right.

The more crossover points you have-the harder it is to get it all "lined up" and working together properly.

Many people "think" that the freq response simply stops at the crossover points.

This is NOT what happens.  The freq bands overlap each other-AND INTERFERE with each other in the ranges they overlap.

Getting them to "work together" is beyond most people capabilities/knowledge.  It si NOT as simple as putting a crossover in the chain.
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Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Andrew Brubaker

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #33 on: March 03, 2014, 11:08:52 am »

It is a common "desire" to simply add speakers to cover areas that people feel are "lacking".

However in reality it is not that easy-to do right.

The more crossover points you have-the harder it is to get it all "lined up" and working together properly.

What would be your recommendation then, Ivan. Replace the tops with ones that actually reach into the desired frequency range and forget about the mid sub idea?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #34 on: March 03, 2014, 08:41:52 pm »

What would be your recommendation then, Ivan. Replace the tops with ones that actually reach into the desired frequency range and forget about the mid sub idea?
Yes.

I am not saying that you can't simply add some speakers to cover the freq range you want.

Yes it will "work", but may very well not work as well as cabinets that are properly aligned.

The real "trick" is getting different cabinets to "play well" with each other.  Yes they will all make noise-but is it a good noise?
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #35 on: March 03, 2014, 08:46:06 pm »

What would be your recommendation then, Ivan. Replace the tops with ones that actually reach into the desired frequency range and forget about the mid sub idea?
We are taking 3 systems down to WMC (ultrafest) this year and they are basically 2 way (cabinets anyway) systems.  Subs and full range cabinets. 

The full range cabinets go low enough and strong enough on their own.  So the subs are just that-subs-not bass cabinets.
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Andrew Brubaker

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #36 on: March 04, 2014, 11:24:08 am »

We are taking 3 systems down to WMC (ultrafest) this year and they are basically 2 way (cabinets anyway) systems.  Subs and full range cabinets. 

The full range cabinets go low enough and strong enough on their own.  So the subs are just that-subs-not bass cabinets.

Thank you for the input! Wish I could make it out to ultra to see the setup you're bringing.

So I am planning on just replacing the tops but I'm curious. Going off the OP main idea, what would you look for in a mid sub?  I'm assuming you will probably see several set ups incorporating the use of them in Florida
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Question on sub/system setup for EDM
« Reply #37 on: March 05, 2014, 07:33:51 am »

Thank you for the input! Wish I could make it out to ultra to see the setup you're bringing.

So I am planning on just replacing the tops but I'm curious. Going off the OP main idea, what would you look for in a mid sub?  I'm assuming you will probably see several set ups incorporating the use of them in Florida
If you "have" to have a "mid sub", then I would look for something that has the SPL capability to keep up with the rest of the rig.

It should also be small enough so that it can be close enough wavelength wise to the upper part of its freq band so that can "mesh" with the next higher element.

So what do that really mean?

It means YOU have to determine what "keeping up spl wise" really means-based on the REAL capability of the rest of the rig.  Without knowing the rest-there is no guess that can be made.

Same thing goes with the physical size-without knowing what the rest of the rig is-it is purely a guess based on no usable information.

Of course it also depends on what some people "think" looks cool.  And if you are going to stack it up-it depends on the rest of the rig and the physical dimensions-what your capability to stack are etc.  Is it 1 or 2 people?  Do you have a fork lift? and so forth.

The REAL answer depends on MANY pieces of information.

But for me-it is not the approach I would take.  But other companies make money off  of simply providing products that people want-not what they need or understand.

So why don't we have a system that has subs-mid bass-low mids-high mids-highs and ultra high-all in separate boxes?  Because you will never be able to get them to sound correct or accurate-due to the physical spacing-different crossovers and so forth.

Yes it may "look cool" and in real simple "theory" work-UNTIL you start to actually measure it and try to get it lined up-IN MORE THAN ONE LISTENING POSITION!!!!!!!!!!!!

People often forget that there are many people at an event-and with separated devices-that is going to cause notching in the response so it will be different at different seats.

How much of a problem is it?  It depends on your expectations.

There have been millions of concerts that have this problem and billions of people who walked away with a good experience.

But could it be better?  In most cases YES.  But it depends on "what you are after" and people are after different things.  To some it is all about the visual-to others it is all about the cost-to others the sound really matters and so forth.

So as usual-it depends-----------------
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A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!
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