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Author Topic: 57 VIP Kit  (Read 13226 times)

Hayden J. Nebus

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57 VIP Kit
« on: June 15, 2012, 12:39:47 PM »

Anybody price out a VIP mount for a pair of 57s lately? I Was shocked and apalled that the dual shockmount lists for the price of about 4 of the mics you stick in it.

I do not understand the economics of this at all!
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gary makovsky

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #1 on: June 15, 2012, 02:18:50 PM »

Because that's what the goverment pays for the president so we have to pay the same. I usually stick with a standard T bar mount from my coincident pair.
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Hayden J. Nebus

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #2 on: June 15, 2012, 04:23:08 PM »

Because that's what the goverment pays for the president so we have to pay the same. I usually stick with a standard T bar mount from my coincident pair.

That is precisely the less expensive solution I'm using.. The shocking part is that Shure expects you to pay 4 hundred bucks for 8 oz of steel and 2 oz of butyl rubber. The apalling part is that you know Uncle Sam probably pays list +20%, out of your pocket and mine. 
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #3 on: June 15, 2012, 04:39:08 PM »

That is precisely the less expensive solution I'm using.. The shocking part is that Shure expects you to pay 4 hundred bucks for 8 oz of steel and 2 oz of butyl rubber. The apalling part is that you know Uncle Sam probably pays list +20%, out of your pocket and mine.

   Hello,

  Uncle Sam probably bought a few and hasn't bought any since.  It's not like they're a consumable.  The one that is used in the WH Press Briefing Room stays put along with the Mics, for day to day usage.   The one that is seen in use for the President's Speeches, is hand carried by WH Communications Staff along with Mics and his Lectern. 

  I'm guessing that they don't go through them very often, but, even still, it is the President of the U.S. and they'll buy whatever they need for whatever the price.  To them, it's not an issue.

   Hammer
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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #4 on: June 15, 2012, 04:58:01 PM »

Anybody price out a VIP mount for a pair of 57s lately? I Was shocked and apalled that the dual shockmount lists for the price of about 4 of the mics you stick in it.

I do not understand the economics of this at all!

The more limited the production run, the higher the per unit cost.  I can't imagine they're going to sell enough of them to be able to produce in quantities sufficient to price them out at a "consumer" level cost.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #5 on: June 15, 2012, 05:52:18 PM »

Anybody price out a VIP mount for a pair of 57s lately? I Was shocked and apalled that the dual shockmount lists for the price of about 4 of the mics you stick in it.

I do not understand the economics of this at all!

The one I'm used to is about $75 at Full Compass.

Mac
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Tim Weaver

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57 VIP Kit
« Reply #6 on: June 16, 2012, 01:00:15 AM »

We bought one at the university I used to work at. We then took it to a machine shop and they built like 4 more for around 2 or 3 hundred bucks. I can't remember now, its been a while.

They just bent the steel and we used the bottom Half of a mic clip for the threads.

The shop built ones weren't perfect, but very close. Close enough that when the real one was on one lecturn and the fake on another lecturn you couldn't tell them apart.

We bought them because we dealt with quite a few ex-president type functions. They just look right in that regard.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #7 on: June 16, 2012, 04:25:36 AM »

You really should give uncle more credit. The list from Shure is $800 and that price includes a pair of 57s, wind screens, shock mounts, etc., and the mount(s) alone can be purchased at full Compass for about $275.

As a former federal employee familiar with GSA purchasing the price you see is not GSA pricing unless you see that price in the GSA catalog. GSA prices are the prices negotiated with the manufacturer who guarantees availability. There is also the buy American act which requires a product made in the USA be supplied when requested. EOS. Purchasing outside of the GSA catalog requires written justification through 3 levels of management. This approval is seldom if ever given unless the product is 1) custom made and unique, 2) not in the catalog, 3) not made in the USA. Working as a model maker for almost 20 years we were surprised that Mitutoyo micrometers were listed as suitable substitutes for Browne and Sharpe or Starrett products if you were willing to except products not made in the USA.

GSA does a far better job than most people think. Want to blame someone for the high price of the mount?? Blame Shure.
 
And FYI;
The Shure SM57 VIP Dual Microphone Kit is sold by Shure Parts and Service: call 800-516-2525.   The U.S. retail price as of February 1, 2008: $800. All parts can be purchased separately.

The SM57 VIP Kit consists of:

1 - Custom dual shock mount  ($225 if purchased separately)
1 - A26M vertical dual mount
2 - SM57 mics
2 - mic cables with XLR connectors
2 - A26X extension tubes
2 - A2WS windscreens
2 - A81WS windscreens
1 - A13HDB black flange

 
« Last Edit: June 16, 2012, 04:30:29 AM by Bob Leonard »
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paul bell

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #8 on: June 16, 2012, 08:13:15 AM »

The set I've owned for about a decade looked pretty good with Buba standing behind them!
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Mark Olsen

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57 VIP Kit
« Reply #9 on: June 16, 2012, 04:25:32 PM »

Forgive my ignorance but I've never dual mic'ed a podium before. What do you do with the signals at the desk? Do you run them both at the same volume? Do you pan them at all? Does if just make it better when they move their head a lot?
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Scott Wagner

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #10 on: June 16, 2012, 05:13:59 PM »

Forgive my ignorance but I've never dual mic'ed a podium before. What do you do with the signals at the desk? Do you run them both at the same volume? Do you pan them at all? Does if just make it better when they move their head a lot?
One at a time.  The other is a backup.  Anything else would be a disaster.
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brian maddox

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #11 on: June 16, 2012, 05:38:32 PM »

One at a time.  The other is a backup.  Anything else would be a disaster.

or, one to PA, one to record so that the EQ/compression you use for the PA doesn't have to go to record and vis versa.  each is still instantly routable to the other destination as a backup.
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Scott Wagner

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #12 on: June 16, 2012, 06:19:06 PM »

or, one to PA, one to record so that the EQ/compression you use for the PA doesn't have to go to record and vis versa.  each is still instantly routable to the other destination as a backup.
That works, too.  I was speaking of the way they're used for the President.
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Mark Olsen

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2012, 06:20:43 PM »

One at a time.  The other is a backup.  Anything else would be a disaster.

OK .. excellent, I was trying to work out how it would work and I couldn't work out how you solve the multi path problem.
Glad to see I was missing something.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2012, 06:20:57 PM »

Forgive my ignorance but I've never dual mic'ed a podium before. What do you do with the signals at the desk? Do you run them both at the same volume? Do you pan them at all? Does if just make it better when they move their head a lot?

Usually only one mic at a time is on. With the vertical pair, not only is it less intrusive visually, but it is not as bad to keep both mics open since there is no phasing as the speaker moves side to side. Most people don't move up and down as they speak.

I have never understood why they moved to side by side mics. I think during the Reagan administration they had three mics for a while, but then went back to two, but side by side rather than the vertical that dated from the Nixon years. We always referred to the A26 clip as a "Nixon clip".

Mac
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Mike Pyle

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2012, 11:28:48 AM »

...there is no phasing as the speaker moves side to side. Most people don't move up and down as they speak.

Here in California the Legislature moves up & down but Jerry Brown moves side to side.
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Sam Zuckerman

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2012, 08:28:31 PM »

We have one at the University I work at. I was't around when it was purchased but I think it was one of those "because we can" purchases. Kind of like the 4ft zip ties we have.

That aside, it works like it should. We only mic up both 57s when it's a "high profile" event for us meaning $$$ contract or high up university officials.
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Brook Hovland

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #17 on: June 17, 2012, 10:11:38 PM »

Usually only one mic at a time is on. With the vertical pair, not only is it less intrusive visually, but it is not as bad to keep both mics open since there is no phasing as the speaker moves side to side. Most people don't move up and down as they speak.

I have never understood why they moved to side by side mics. I think during the Reagan administration they had three mics for a while, but then went back to two, but side by side rather than the vertical that dated from the Nixon years. We always referred to the A26 clip as a "Nixon clip".

Mac

As I recall, the three mic system was used as follows, one for live, one for press and on as a backup for either. I was also told that the backup never needed to be used so it was phased out.
I have had one VP job where the White House sound people wanted BOTH mics in the PA and Press. I kinda gave them one to both and a backup...   :-X
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brian maddox

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #18 on: June 17, 2012, 10:26:37 PM »

That works, too.  I was speaking of the way they're used for the President.

as a native of the washington D.C area, i've had the privilege of working with my good friends at WHCA a good many times.  they like to have all the mics go through them and then give an output to the 'contractor'.  and they typically run one mic for everything with the other as backup only to be used in case of failure.

of course, when the 'contractor' is running all the multicore and cabling, it's entirely possible for them to split the mics and have the backup mic come straight to them so that they can get a good clean signal without the WHCA junk hitting it first.  since this is clearly contrary to WHCA's wishes i would, of course, never do this myself...
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brian maddox
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Mac Kerr

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #19 on: June 17, 2012, 10:32:38 PM »

As I recall, the three mic system was used as follows, one for live, one for press and on as a backup for either. I was also told that the backup never needed to be used so it was phased out.

Do you recall that from an event you provided sound for, or do you recall that someone told you that? My experience with both the 2 and 3 mic setup was that WHCA took all the mics into their mixer and gave feeds to PA, and their own system of battery powered speakers, and the sound company provided the press feed. WHCA may have also provided another press feed, it was a long time ago.

The 3 mic setup had balloon iso mounts, the 2 mic "Nixon Clip" did not. For the Presidential Debates, Larry Estrin had Audio Technica build the "TriPoint" mic that had 3 capsules in a single windscreen, and looked like 1 largish mic. AFAIK it was only ever used on the debates.

The only times I have personally mounted a mic on the presidential lectern it was a Shure A26M mount with 2 SM57s with A2WS windscreens.

Mac
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brian maddox

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #20 on: June 17, 2012, 11:19:13 PM »

Do you recall that from an event you provided sound for, or do you recall that someone told you that? My experience with both the 2 and 3 mic setup was that WHCA took all the mics into their mixer and gave feeds to PA, and their own system of battery powered speakers, and the sound company provided the press feed. WHCA may have also provided another press feed, it was a long time ago.

The 3 mic setup had balloon iso mounts, the 2 mic "Nixon Clip" did not. For the Presidential Debates, Larry Estrin had Audio Technica build the "TriPoint" mic that had 3 capsules in a single windscreen, and looked like 1 largish mic. AFAIK it was only ever used on the debates.

The only times I have personally mounted a mic on the presidential lectern it was a Shure A26M mount with 2 SM57s with A2WS windscreens.

Mac

i feel like i could have written this post.  Mac, you and i must be about the same age/vintage.  i do think the TriPoint mic was used for a party convention or two, but i'm not sure of that.  i might be confusing it with another 3 element mic of about the same time.  i want to say maybe it was a Crown?  anyway, i do remember using the mic i'm remembering myself once or twice and it being pretty mediocre.

anyway, +1 to what he said.  WHCA pretty much takes everything and gives you an output.  back in my day, their rig was made up of shure M267s custom built into racks with splitters and such.  since it was built by the company i worked for, i'll take the liberty of saying it sounded terrible nearly all the time.  later, they got a sony broadcast mixer that was a bit better.

not sure what they're doing now.  i've not had the privilege of working with the mighty WHCA folks since W was in office.  but i suspect the basic operating procedures are largely unchanged.  WHCA is, essentially, a military outfit, and the military is not known for it's rapidly changing procedures....
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brian maddox
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Jim McKeveny

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #21 on: June 18, 2012, 08:57:49 AM »

If you plan on doing political events, no purchase could be more critical. Buy the mount and stop crying. Every time you see a candidate on TV or in the paper you'll know the money was well spent.
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Mike Fariss

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2012, 01:09:20 PM »

... back in my day, their rig was made up of shure M267s custom built into racks with splitters and such.  since it was built by the company i worked for, i'll take the liberty of saying it sounded terrible nearly all the time.  later, they got a sony broadcast mixer that was a bit better.

not sure what they're doing now.  i've not had the privilege of working with the mighty WHCA folks since W was in office.  but i suspect the basic operating procedures are largely unchanged.  WHCA is, essentially, a military outfit, and the military is not known for it's rapidly changing procedures....


I've worked video on a few WHCA events in the last year.  They have a pair of IRs and a DM-1000.  I don't recall what outboard WHCA was using.

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Re: 57 VIP Kit
« Reply #22 on: June 18, 2012, 01:09:20 PM »


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