ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: ZZTOP cancels show  (Read 11924 times)

Stu McDoniel

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1144
  • Central Wisconsin...USA
Logged

Justice C. Bigler

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2550
  • back home in Oklahoma
    • My homepage
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2012, 11:50:04 am »

We need more acts to step up and put safety ahead of their dollars in this industry. The only real change will come when the acts themselves (and the money they bring in) demand that things be done in a safe manner.
Logged
Justice C. Bigler
www.justicebigler.com

Jordan Wolf

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1376
  • Location: Collingswood, NJ
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2012, 10:56:05 pm »

The only real change will come when the acts themselves (and the money they bring in) demand that things be done in a safe manner.
I hope that's the case, Justice.

Unfortunately, if audience and crew injuries don't deter enough groups to call their shows, it may just take someone in the group getting hurt/killed for them to "get it".

I never hope it comes to that, but fear it may have to.
Logged
Jordan Wolf
<><

"We want our sound to go into the soul of the audience, and see if it can awaken some little thing in their minds... Cause there are so many sleeping people." - Jimi Hendrix

Paul Dershem

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 222
  • San Diego, CA
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2012, 11:18:45 pm »

Based upon the story linked above, it appears ZZ Top did a good job of communicating the issues in a way that shows them to be professionals expressing legitimate concerns. Kudos!

Among professionals who do more than give lip service to safety, communication is encouraged; every time musicians, and others with legitimate concerns, express safety concerns clearly and objectively, their comments are welcomed, reviewed, and given deliberate consideration.

Who has the authority to insist work is done properly? Why are they ineffective? Which industry practices need to change?

Logged
Live without pretending
Love without depending
Listen without defending
Speak without offending.

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9061
  • Atlanta GA
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #5 on: June 13, 2012, 12:08:49 am »

http://music.yahoo.com/news/zz-top-cuts-alabama-show-over-safety-concerns-163552452.html
This weekend in Vegas there was a hug Electronic dance show at the speedway.  The news said that 300,00- were expected to attend.

They cancelled the main stage on Sat night-due to high winds.  They set up a smaller system at the other end so the people could still party.

I think the issues of safety and outdoor stages are going to change.

The providers had better have their stuff together when doing these types of shows or they could lose a good bit.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Charlie Zureki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1244
  • South Eastern Michigan (near Windsor)
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2012, 06:30:47 am »


I think the issues of safety and outdoor stages are going to change.

The providers had better have their stuff together when doing these types of shows or they could lose a good bit.

   Hello,

    Yes,    safety procedures and staging specifications for live events have been needing a "change" for quite a while now.    Unfortunately,  much like other industries, it takes press releases and video clips of deaths and injuries to be the catalyst needed, for the insistance of higher safety standards by those involved in the industry. 

   With this ZZ Top Show cancellation, this change toward an insistance of assured safety has  begun, and, we can only hope that this gets as much press, as those terrible staging incidents of the past few years.

   As I'm sitting here typing this, I'm recalling a conversation, from about a year ago, that I had with an A list artist.  We played the arguments out, and came to the conclusion that it should be at the artist's discretion as to whether a show could or should be cancelled.   That this final decision option should be included  in the Artist's contract. 

  I hope this change proceeds in an honest, orderly and logical manner...

   Hammer   
Logged
Do it the right way....don't be a Dino!

James A. Griffin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 832
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2012, 11:06:22 am »

  I'm recalling a conversation, from about a year ago, that I had with an A list artist.  We played the arguments out, and came to the conclusion that it should be at the artist's discretion as to whether a show could or should be cancelled.   That this final decision option should be included  in the Artist's contract. 

Hammer..

I'd be interested in some of the thoughts behind that conclusion.   Seems there are lots of pros and cons no matter which way you go with it.         
Logged
I need to determine where in this swamp of unbalanced formulas squatteth the Toad of Truth

Charlie Zureki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1244
  • South Eastern Michigan (near Windsor)
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2012, 01:29:05 pm »

Hammer..

I'd be interested in some of the thoughts behind that conclusion.   Seems there are lots of pros and cons no matter which way you go with it.         

  Hello James,

  I'd rather not discuss this specific conversation in a public forum, but, I'd be happy to Email you my thought and the basics as to what was discussed, and how we had came to the conclusion that we had. 

   I'll PM you or send it via an Email.

  Hammer

  ps.  Sandy Espinoza,  LA., CA.,  had written the first press lease regarding the ZZ TOP cancellation.  She has been a powerhouse in promoting "Safe Stage Awareness", the adoption of Regional and/or National Safety standards for Staged Events, and is currently acting Consultant to many Production Companies and Event Promoters..     
Logged
Do it the right way....don't be a Dino!

Charlie Zureki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1244
  • South Eastern Michigan (near Windsor)
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2012, 02:37:34 pm »

 

   Hello,

   Here's the article that Sandy Espinoza wrote for SPL :

  http://www.splnetwork.com/blogs/roland-castillo-head-rigger-zz-top-spoke-and-they-listened-06122012

   Hammer
Logged
Do it the right way....don't be a Dino!

Buddy Brock

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 11
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #10 on: June 13, 2012, 04:29:49 pm »

This venue is not far from me. It is an Indian-operated casino that is located in a rural location. The amphitheater area stage is brought in from somewhere else. I was not there for this show but had a friend there. I do know that we had record-level rain in our area on that day. It lingered off and on just about to their show time. My friend said the show was called later in the evening which shows every effort was made (as stated above) to get this show rolling. Kudos to the rigger for having the guts to stand his ground because I have my doubts that anyone at the venue would have cared. My opinion.
Logged

Keith Broughton

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3401
  • Toronto
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #11 on: June 14, 2012, 07:58:49 am »

When the head rigger on a tour I am on says something isn't safe and needs to be changed, I back them up all the way.
The safety of cast, crew and audience is paramount and the opinion of the head rigger should be respected and actions taken to resolve safety issues.
They hire me for good sound.
 I have a head rigger for good safety!
Logged
I don't care enough to be apathetic

Doug Hammel

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 106
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #12 on: June 14, 2012, 12:10:35 pm »

Does anyone know the specifics of why the rigger called it. I read where it was an unsake roof/grid, but why was it unsafe? Hopefully the staging company is taking care of the problems but it helps to know more about the specifics if possible.

Everyone stay safe out there 



http://music.yahoo.com/news/zz-top-cuts-alabama-show-over-safety-concerns-163552452.html
Logged
Doug Hammel

dougcvaudio@gmail.com

Randy Frierson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 38
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #13 on: June 20, 2012, 01:37:39 am »

Does anyone know the specifics of why the rigger called it. I read where it was an unsake roof/grid, but why was it unsafe? Hopefully the staging company is taking care of the problems but it helps to know more about the specifics if possible.

Everyone stay safe out there
NO ONE IS TALKING....CAN'T EVEN VERIFY THE NAME OF THE PRODUCTION COMPANY, CAN'T WARN OTHERS.....
Logged

Matt Vivlamore

  • Lab Lounge
  • Sr. Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 416
    • https://www.facebook.com/MeerkatSound/
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #14 on: June 21, 2012, 03:02:45 pm »

NO ONE IS TALKING....CAN'T EVEN VERIFY THE NAME OF THE PRODUCTION COMPANY, CAN'T WARN OTHERS.....

Hopefully the staging company learned something.  And they’ll go back into the shop and re-evaluate this and make necessary changes and/or repair & retrain their employees.

There is no need to throw the company under the bus (unless they don't learn from their mistakes).
Logged

Charlie Zureki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1244
  • South Eastern Michigan (near Windsor)
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #15 on: June 21, 2012, 05:15:47 pm »

Hopefully the staging company learned something.  And they’ll go back into the shop and re-evaluate this and make necessary changes and/or repair & retrain their employees.

There is no need to throw the company under the bus (unless they don't learn from their mistakes).

  Hello,

    We are all glad that no one got hurt, and that there was no incident with this stage/roof. (I had some friends working this show too... from both Acts)  But, I disagree regarding not naming names. I have tracked Stage "incidents" for over 10 years, and, while believing that Stages/Roof Systems would get more safe, because of the publicity, I have found no evidence to support this logical progression.

   Many of these Stage incident investigations and subsequent Lawsuits, had, as a condition of the out-come, sealed the information to the general public.  These court-house agreements don't serve the public, nor do they serve the industry.

  From Sandy Espinoza:  " the Stage was supplied by Sound Associates".  I have not confirmed this, but...???

  Hammer


  It is now confirmed that the Stage owner was Sound Associates.
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 08:15:47 pm by Charlie Zureki »
Logged
Do it the right way....don't be a Dino!

James A. Griffin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 832
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #16 on: June 21, 2012, 05:27:36 pm »

     Many of these Stage incident investigations and subsequent Lawsuits, had, as a condition of the out-come, sealed the information to the general public.  These court-house agreements don't serve the public, nor do they serve the industry.

The settlement agreements serve only the parties.   The plaintiff benefits because the dollars agreed upon is a sure thing, not contingent upon whims of jury.    Same to the defendants, who are able to get off with a known sum, rather than an unknown.

That parties can work out these deals is generally a good thing, saving time and costs to an over-taxed jury system.    But the kicker is that these settlements usually come in to play only after the discovery phase of a lawsuit, when all of the parties have concluded their investigations, depositions, and opinions of expert.    Once those facts are known by the parties, those who have an incentive to  settle the case do so.   And all the knowledge that has been gained is sealed forever.

I wonder what the world would be like if all the documents created in every product liability lawsuit in the past 50 years was suddenly put on the internet? 
« Last Edit: June 21, 2012, 05:29:27 pm by James A. Griffin »
Logged
I need to determine where in this swamp of unbalanced formulas squatteth the Toad of Truth

Charlie Zureki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1244
  • South Eastern Michigan (near Windsor)
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #17 on: June 21, 2012, 05:47:47 pm »

The settlement agreements serve only the parties.   The plaintiff benefits because the dollars agreed upon is a sure thing, not contingent upon whims of jury.    Same to the defendants, who are able to get off with a known sum, rather than an unknown.

That parties can work out these deals is generally a good thing, saving time and costs to an over-taxed jury system.    But the kicker is that these settlements usually come in to play only after the discovery phase of a lawsuit, when all of the parties have concluded their investigations, depositions, and opinions of expert.    Once those facts are known by the parties, those who have an incentive to  settle the case do so.   And all the knowledge that has been gained is sealed forever.

I wonder what the world would be like if all the documents created in every product liability lawsuit in the past 50 years was suddenly put on the internet?

 +1

  Hammer
Logged
Do it the right way....don't be a Dino!

Charlie Zureki

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1244
  • South Eastern Michigan (near Windsor)
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #18 on: June 21, 2012, 07:52:10 pm »

  Hello,

  Read the letter written by Jeff Chase, a crew member, in response to a newspaper article concerning the cancellation of the Show, both are at:

  www.splnetwork.com

  Hammer
Logged
Do it the right way....don't be a Dino!

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #19 on: June 22, 2012, 08:44:06 am »

  Hello,

  Read the letter written by Jeff Chase, a crew member, in response to a newspaper article concerning the cancellation of the Show, both are at:

  www.splnetwork.com

  Hammer

The thing that sticks out to me is the casino invoking the

"We have always done it that way"

clause.

To me that is a fast track to the loss of credibility.

If I understand tort law, there are basically two ways to prove a case:
1. Prove that professional standards were not met.
2. Prove that the standards are not adequate and need to be changed.

I don't think "We have always done it that way" is going to help the defense in either case.
Logged
Jay Barracato

Chris Hindle

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1947
  • Montreal, Quebec, Canada, Earth, Sol System,......
Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2012, 08:56:58 am »

The thing that sticks out to me is the casino invoking the

"We have always done it that way"

clause.
Yup. All fine and dandy with "Joe Blow and the Hooters" 15 years ago, with 50 cans and a backdrop hung from the roof. How does that relate to today's production load on a roof ?
People (promoters and such in management positions) really need to get a reality check on exactly what they are booking. Expecting bands to continuosly be presenting "The Biggest Show to date", and not expecting that to come at some cost is, well, at LEAST short-sighted. Recent collapses are turning this into having some ugly reprecussions.
Once the insurance companies really "get" what is happening, I'd expect to see much outdoor (and other temp. rigs) get pretty severly hammered. No insurance, no show.
Logged
Ya, Whatever. Just throw a '57 on it, and get off my stage.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: ZZTOP cancels show
« Reply #20 on: June 22, 2012, 08:56:58 am »


Pages: 1 2 3 [All]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.177 seconds with 22 queries.