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Author Topic: Advice Building Outdoor Stage  (Read 13971 times)

Charlie Zureki

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Re: Advice Building Outdoor Stage
« Reply #20 on: June 03, 2012, 11:25:11 am »

Hello all. I am directly involved with this project.

In response to your negative comments about the RETAINING WALL ( as in to make dirt square and hold it) the County Building Department are the originators of this idea. We were first looking at building a traditional concrete retaining wall, they suggested the tires, and said it was a good idea. Apparently, this is done a lot in this area with success.

We have been building structure's (Homes, Commercial..etc) for over 20 years as licensed general contractors, and EVERYTHING we have built is to code and structurally sound. There is no structure being built on this "platform".

"The electrical panel was not installed to code" I'm sorry what? That panel was installed by a certified electrician and passed inspection. Not only that, what you see is not the finished product.


I will also be one of the main users of this "platform", endangering my life with that 3.5 foot drop off.

Some of you guys are really dramatic.


  Hello,

 Well, if what you say is true, then, you and Jeremy need to get your stories straight....   What is it, a retaining wall or a platform for the stage?   I think you guys are trying to B.S. your way through this... and, if you're out in the middle of nowhere, with some ignorant inspectors and other reasons why the inspectors might look the other way...you'll probably get're  done.

  Tires can be used in the U.S. for constructing a "retaining wall" filled with compacted soil of gravel.  But, without MODIFICATION tires cannot be used in constructing a platform topped with concrete, or a  building wall.   See the National Building Codes.

  The Electrical panel, as Mr. McCulloch wrote, is for indoor usage only.  It is not a weather tight Nema enclosure.  By having electrical service cables terminating into the box, it has violated Code. If there is another planned enclosure or housing meant to cover this service panel, it should have been installed before the service cables were terminated.

  Hmmm... Misrepresenting the intended use of a structure is a crime in most areas... A "retaining wall" is quite different than a wall supporting a platform or structure.

  Topping that heap of dirt and gravel with Concrete makes it a structure.

  Lastly, you cannot get around National Safety Codes, whether the project is for a church or not.  You need a guard rail.   

   Good Luck, I'm done...remember, that people that skirt Building Laws can be sued...Church or not....so follow the building Codes

 Hammer   
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 12:38:56 pm by Charlie Zureki »
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David Schulz

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Re: Advice Building Outdoor Stage
« Reply #21 on: June 03, 2012, 06:40:54 pm »

Guardrails will be installed on the sides of the stage.

I was told that box was outdoor rated, we have several on the property. All installed by an electrical company and inspected by the County. I guess we should double check that.

A part of the problem here is that this project is just getting started and you seem to be assuming that we are not doing a lot of things. Such as handrails, and that is frustrating. Jeremy is a sound engineer who is a friend and is not a part of this project.

Are you aware that homes are being built (in the US) with load-bearing walls made out of tires? Built to code and properly inspected, not illegal!
   
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Brad Weber

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Re: Advice Building Outdoor Stage
« Reply #22 on: June 03, 2012, 07:05:20 pm »

A part of the problem here is that this project is just getting started and you seem to be assuming that we are not doing a lot of things. Such as handrails, and that is frustrating. Jeremy is a sound engineer who is a friend and is not a part of this project.
I think there may be some misunderstandings regarding the scope of the project and I think a lot of that may stem from the references of audiences of 500 to 1,000 or even 10,000.  That probably suggests certain things to most here that it appears may not be true.  It also makes me wonder if that intent has been expressed to the appropriate design professional and authorities.  It may be that planning for such audiences and the related events is not really an element of what is being planned or supported by the current construction.  Perhaps we can make sure we're all on the same page as to the general intent being used as the basis for the current construction.

Are you aware that homes are being built (in the US) with load-bearing walls made out of tires? Built to code and properly inspected, not illegal!
Yes, I'm also aware that there are significant differences between what a property owner can do in regards to residential construction on their property and what can be done for commercial construction of public assembly areas, so that is not necessarily relevant.  That's an example of why it is probably important to know what we are discussing before getting into any details.
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David Schulz

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Re: Advice Building Outdoor Stage
« Reply #23 on: June 03, 2012, 08:28:28 pm »

The electrical panel is another obvious issue.  It appears to be a indoor-rated panel that is installed outdoors and exposed to the elements.  Does it never rain there?  That your local AHJ overlooked this obvious (and in my experience, never-waived requirement) makes me think the inspectors are either incompetent, have an agenda that benefits the churches finances or that the Code as adopted locally is fundamentally lax in a way that endangers people.  Even here in Kansas, that wouldn't fly.

The panels are Siemens w3040b1200cu NEMA Type 3R Outdoor Load Centers.

I think there may be some misunderstandings regarding the scope of the project and I think a lot of that may stem from the references of audiences of 500 to 1,000 or even 10,000.  That probably suggests certain things to most here that it appears may not be true.  It also makes me wonder if that intent has been expressed to the appropriate design professional and authorities.

We do not expect more then 200 people to be attending. This church has a building that only holds 120 people and normal attendance is in the 60-80 range.

The intentions of this project have been fully disclosed to the County Building Department, I feel like I keep saying this.

I guess this is going to take awhile,you keep telling us everything is wrong with this project and we have to second guess even what the building department is telling us?!?!?!

So now that we have established that these are NEMA panels, whats next?

I don't have time for all this armchair general nonsense!
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Advice Building Outdoor Stage
« Reply #24 on: June 03, 2012, 08:54:46 pm »

I don't have time for all this armchair general nonsense!

Let us not forget that no one on these forums sought you out:

A local church is building an outdoor stage amphitheater on private property outside local town.  (Town population 5000, county 43,000.)  Labor is more plentiful than $$.  Stage dimensions are 50' W x 40' D, with additional 10' x 14' wings for speakers (total 70' W at front, exact stage height to be decided).  Current construction is clay dirt filled tires for front & side wings perimeter with clay dirt backfill.  6" concrete slab with rebar will be poured on top with cement board forms along outside of tire perimeter.  No permanent roof - plan is to raise portable roof with box truss frame (incl. lights & flown speakers) if & when the need arises.  200 Amp service currently installed.  Crowd area 125' D flat ground, then slopes upward 75' or so (to ≈ 30' H).   Concert attendance 125-1200, wishfully up to 10,000 or more in time. 

Stage height?  Currently would be 36" at highest point (incl. 6" slab), could be 44" if another row of tires is added.  (I suspect 44" or 52" would be best, given 48" - 52" standard loading dock heights.)

Loading dock?  The back of the stage is currently sloped dirt (potentially grass).  Would it be advisable to place a "tire wall" somewhere along the back and build a proper loading dock?

Water drainage?  It's been considered to slope the stage for drainage, I'm inclined to suggest flat, any thoughts?

Handicap access?  Is it advisable to construct a ramp aside from the sloped bank at back of stage?

Concrete strip in front of stage?  Idea is that center ground stacked sub woofers would have foundation other than uneven grass.

I have lots of questions but want to cover the essentials at this stage of the growing process.  All insight is appreciated.  Thanks!

The members here, many of whom have considerable experience in system design and installation as well as general construction issues, have offered their advice, without charge, based on the information given to them. If you do not have time, or any interest in this free help, please feel free to not participate.

Mac
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David Schulz

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Re: Advice Building Outdoor Stage
« Reply #25 on: June 03, 2012, 09:07:35 pm »

You are absolutely right. Those involved with this project also did not seek out this forum.

I want this topic to be deleted. I will ask Jeremy ( who has been busy with a gig) or an admin to please remove it.
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Mac Kerr

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Re: Advice Building Outdoor Stage
« Reply #26 on: June 03, 2012, 09:11:17 pm »

You are absolutely right. Those involved with this project also did not seek out this forum.

I want this topic to be deleted. I will ask Jeremy ( who has been busy with a gig) or an admin to please remove it.

It certainly didn't look like those involved did not seek advice here to the members.

I will lock this thread. We do not delete threads.

Mac
« Last Edit: June 03, 2012, 09:13:09 pm by Mac Kerr »
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