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[Scott Bolt]

I completely agree with the OP.  Flat sounds ..... well flat

When I had a passive rig I used the DRPA to autoeq (hold the tomatoes for just a moment).  This results in a mix that had several issues to my ears (and eyes).  First, it took way too much off of the bottom and made the punch of the kick too weak for my taste.  2nd, because of comb filtering of the speakers, it results in an almost perfect comb in the eq settings (one frequency up, one flat or down, and continue).  Once I cleaned up the comb, and adjusted to my taste, it sounded quite good.

The auto eq did tame the very annoying boomy quality of my folded horns and the shrill quality of the tops into a much better sound than just an analog cross-over did.  It just left a bit to be desired in the details of how it did it.

[Marc Platt]

   I just dont think I want a flat response except in the monitors where I welcome flatness with open arms if I have the privilage. The way Tim put it seems to satisfy my inner demons, he said the goal is linearity, which is what Ultimately makes me smile.
   

[Rob Spence]

As I have stated in the past a "flat" system is your reference point, linear is the point past reference where the system sounds best. The goal, regardless of final setting, is to establish a reference point that can be used in any room regardless of dimensions or shape. In my world I have set my DSPs and system response to flat. From that reference point my external EQs and channel strips are all that are changed to achieve a linear response from the system. The DSPs are not touched, or have I touched them in over a year.

+1
You should only need to "flatten" the "system" once (assuming you bring the same config each time) and not have to do it again at a gig. At the gig, listen to something you know and eq to taste.

For my main speaker configurations I set the DSP several years ago. Since they are still the same speakers with the same amplifiers with the same DSP, what is there to change?
Now I might use a system GEQ to adjust the tonality of the rig when I am set up at the gig but that is what it is there for.

[Ivan Beaver]

Just to throw some fuel on the fire.

"Flat" can mean different things.

When you talk about a "flat" response-what exactly does that mean?  Flat as measured with a 1/3oct RTA? or a real measurement system? Something else?

What about the filters used in the RTA?  how steep are the "skirts"?    If you measure a sine wave-do you see freq on either side of the SINGLE tone?  If so-the filters used will show freq where there actually isn't.  You should see just a SINGLE band light up-and possibly the harmonics due to distortion-but not anything on either side-until you get way down in level.

Or if you use a time based system (TEF-Smaart-Systune-EASRA and so forth), then you can often end up with a different response when you measure the same speaker system with an RTA-especially an analog RTA.  The resolution (number of bands) can also make a difference.  The more bands-the better the chance of getting a good/meaningful reading.

Remember that an RTA is totally "time blind".  You have no idea if you are measuring the response of the system-or the HVAC or some other noise.  Cutting a band-because of the reading on the RTA- could actually cause you to put a "hole" in the system response-even though it "measures" flat.  But what you are actually "measuring" is the system response PLUS any noise that is in the room.

It is VERY important to realize the difference between and RTA "flat" and a time based "flat".

I always align systems to be as flat as possible (from 100Hz or so to as high as I can-without stressing the HF drivers).  Most of the time I do put a "bump" on the bottom (below 100Hz).

How much?  That depends on the particular system-who is using it and so forth.  Sometimes none-sometimes a good bit more-it depends.

My opinion is that the system should be a "clean slate" that the FOH person can use to "paint" whatever sound pallett they want.  Any sonic "tastes" should be done on the console channels-not on the system eq.

Ask any artist-the more white (clean) the canvus-the easier it is to get the painting you want. You don't have to "fight" the canvus color.

HOWEVER-If the system is used purely as music playback (DJ), then flat may not be what you are after.  Becuase the music is already mixed-you cannot adjust the tonality of the individual instruments-so all you have is an overall eq adjustment.

You ALSO have to remember that your ears do not have the same freq response at different SPL's.  What sound good at a low level will not sound the same at higher levels.

While those adjustments would normally be made on a channel by channel basis on a console-you can't do that on a playback system.

So if you are using playback (CD/MP3 etc) sources as the "final judge", remember that this is not the same mix as would be done on individual instruments.

I know others feel different-but that is my opinion, and I am sticking to it.  If find it very easy to mix (the real usage) on a flat system (as setup by a time based measurement system).  Just adjust each channels tone as needed.

[Ivan Beaver]

When you talk about a "flat" response-what exactly does that mean?  Flat as measured with a 1/3oct RTA? or a real measurement system? Something else?

For what it is worth-I got my first RTA back in '83.  I tried for years to set my system flat (as displayed on the screen) but was never happy with the results.  I ended up doing it "by ear" but neverther the less I kept trying.

A number of years latter I got a "better" RTA-with more band and finer resolution (1/2dB).  STILL I could not get results that I liked.

I had read about "house curves" but did not understand where they were coming from or why.  So I was still shooting for "flat".

Ever since I stated using a real measurement system, I have been setting them flat-and ahve been happy with the results.

[Mark Gensman]

Back in 1975 I used a Neptune RTA and tuned every room with pretty good results. Basically a flat system.

I think the "smiley face" EQ along with the trend toward massive subs has destroyed any vestage of "natural" sound. Of course a flat system sounds weak or thin..

[David Hoover]

I do something that I have not seen mentioned yet.  When I tune a system to flat in a room, I will turn off the crossovers on the subs - or just turn it up to about 1K, and tune the subs flat well up into the mids.  Then, I turn the crossovers back on.  Same for the speakers.  I tune them flat to as low as the cabinets are tuned (as low as they were made to drop), then turn the crossover back on to where I want it.  I've found that this gives a much nicer crossover point, especially because I usually don't send everything to the subs.  What it gives is a nice slope, and you can tweak crossover point a bit up or down without breaking out your tuning software again.  You just have to tweak frequency and delay.

After I do that (I like to use parametric EQ's) and the system is pretty "flat", then I play some music and dial it in to how I like it with many music tracks I know.  I then walk around the room and listen.  Then, when I have a full band, a very slight bit more tweaking sometimes takes place.  Usually there are annoying frequencies that are very narrow I notch out (esp on subs) that I miss when tuning, then upon walking around find them in certain areas of the room. 

From a flat system, I usually will take out a mid dip from about 500 to 1000Hz, then some high mids.  I almost always pull down the 2k-4k area, then usually other high-mids depending on how loud the system will be running and what system I am running.  After all that, I enjoy about a 6-7dB low shelf.  At about 120Hz, I throw a low shelf on the system.  I don't just turn the subs up, but I low shelf everything.  Speakers and subs.  This gives a very smooth low end.  Then guess what? - If I want flat, I just turn off the 2nd parametric EQ.  I would never run it that way though.  I hate mixing on a flat system.  Too harsh to my ears.

That is all for a sound system that stays in one room. ^

For my portable PA, I'm still going back and forth on just tuning by ear or starting flat.  Normally I do as above ^, but recently I decided that since I re-tune at every venue, that I would just set my system up in open air outside and tune it by ear.  Then, hopefully it will take less tuning when I go to a different room, but I don't know yet.  I still haven't decided which way is better with a portable rig.  I always try different things to see if it works out better...we'll see...

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