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[eric lenasbunt]

I have an upcoming gig in which the client will have a dj in an approximately 30x30' living room.
 The client wants to put the speakers on a plate connected to the top of 7' pieces of truss and strap them down to the truss. Obviously some serious weights or sandbags will be necessary. The top plate is bolted on, the speaker is strapped to be clear.
  We are planning on a sub by the dj and I was going to use a pair of K12s as mains (when I thought tripods were fine) .They are insisting on 4 speakers in corners to get the club feel.
  I could use 4 K12s even though 2 is really overkill for the room. Instead I was thinking 2 K12s by the dj not on the truss, but on tripods and 2 EAW JF80s on top of the trusses on the far side of the room in the corners.
  My main concern was safety and stability of the k12s on top of the trusses. I have a feeling they will still want the K12s on the trusses up front, but I will not do that unless it feels 150% safe.
 Has anyone had a similar setup? Could I do 4 JF80s on the tops of trusses and one k12 over the sub by the dj?
What would you do? I do have some other speaker options available, but not much small enough to go truss top.

Thanks!
   

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

This gig has a very high IQ:  Idiot Quotient

Just take something to make enough noise to keep them happy, do it safely and get cash up front.

[Tim Perry]

This gig has a very high IQ:  Idiot Quotient

Just take something to make enough noise to keep them happy, do it safely and get cash up front.

trussing? Sandbags? Hanging K-12? I keep picturing the pictures of the indiana stage collapse.  I'd hate to see a nice pair of K-12 get all dented and scratched.

Just set up a K-rig in 2 corners and let the subs be drink holders.

[Mark Mattocks]

I have an upcoming gig in which the client will have a dj in an approximately 30x30' living room.
 The client wants to put the speakers on a plate connected to the top of 7' pieces of truss and strap them down to the truss. Obviously some serious weights or sandbags will be necessary. The top plate is bolted on, the speaker is strapped to be clear.
  We are planning on a sub by the dj and I was going to use a pair of K12s as mains (when I thought tripods were fine) .They are insisting on 4 speakers in corners to get the club feel.
  I could use 4 K12s even though 2 is really overkill for the room. Instead I was thinking 2 K12s by the dj not on the truss, but on tripods and 2 EAW JF80s on top of the trusses on the far side of the room in the corners.
  My main concern was safety and stability of the k12s on top of the trusses. I have a feeling they will still want the K12s on the trusses up front, but I will not do that unless it feels 150% safe.
 Has anyone had a similar setup?
Thanks!
 

This is not that strange. People put moving lights on top of truss all the time and that is often a heavier load that moves. If you are talking about square truss on a heavy base plate, then this should just as stable as a tripod stand in a room full of people. Safety the speaker to the truss and bolt it to the top of the truss using the M10 fly points. Sand bag on the base plate if you wish.

[eric lenasbunt]

This is not that strange. People put moving lights on top of truss all the time and that is often a heavier load that moves. If you are talking about square truss on a heavy base plate, then this should just as stable as a tripod stand in a room full of people. Safety the speaker to the truss and bolt it to the top of the truss using the M10 fly points. Sand bag on the base plate if you wish.

That's what I was thinking, I have done this with Roboscans and it was fine. I actually think the truss is probably less of a trip hazard than tripods, I am concerned with the weight at the top.

I like the safety with points idea, thanks.

The whole deal is that there is a 'designer' and sound of course is not his priority. Then there are the 'national' djs who have not seen the room (a large living room) and think they need an X Array.
 I have a deposit, don't worry about that, learned that the hard way on a wedding gig with a 'designer'.
 Just trying to make as many of them happy at once, it has little to do with appropriate gear to do the gig as far as they are concerned, cause one K12 & sub would be barely turned on.

[eric lenasbunt]

trussing? Sandbags? Hanging K-12? I keep picturing the pictures of the indiana stage collapse.  I'd hate to see a nice pair of K-12 get all dented and scratched.

Just set up a K-rig in 2 corners and let the subs be drink holders.

While I appreciate your sentiment this is a ridiculous statement.

And the suggestion for gear is what I suggested, but that did not fly with what they wanted, had to have '4 corners surround feel', to which I explained it will not be surround, but they really didn't care. This is why I was thinking little guys like JF80s, just don't want them blown up either.

[Tim McCulloch]

While I appreciate your sentiment this is a ridiculous statement.

And the suggestion for gear is what I suggested, but that did not fly with what they wanted, had to have '4 corners surround feel', to which I explained it will not be surround, but they really didn't care. This is why I was thinking little guys like JF80s, just don't want them blown up either.

They won't get "4 corner surround feel" they will be some very bizarre comb filtering and it will suck.  But they dont' care so long as it looks cool.

Party planners are willfully clueless.  They believe sound waves are light visible light...  goes where you point it.  Not really, and not indoors.  Oh well.

[Tim Perry]

While I appreciate your sentiment this is a ridiculous statement.

And the suggestion for gear is what I suggested, but that did not fly with what they wanted, had to have '4 corners surround feel', to which I explained it will not be surround, but they really didn't care. This is why I was thinking little guys like JF80s, just don't want them blown up either.

I didn't intend to make a ridiculous statement, merely a humorous one based on the assumption that in a small room that the trussing would most likely be erected in an unsafe manor... by the client and then expect you to hang stuff on it. I suppose that if the truss went all the way around the rooms making it big box supported at the corners it would be just fine but the mention of sandbags and base plates put me in mind of a rickety structure i wouldn't care to be around.

I am quit a fan of the QSC K-12 and K-10 and use them quite often in similar situations on steel crank stands with the tilt down feature. I do this but I'm still nervous about it. The k-10 weighs 32 lbs and the K-12 41. I have had people stumble into and over the stands at times.
 
I actually am in a similar predicament. for stage play I will need  to  provide sound and lighting for essentially 3 stages... this is a main stage a lower stage built in front and a elevated stage built with scaffolding.  The dilemma is there is zero existing lighting and no accessible fly points. All sound an lighting will be on stands. hopefully  a safe system can be installed in the rear to mount some ellipsoidals.

To make matters more difficult there is no level floor in front of the main stage where light and speaker stands need to be. Most likely the stage crew will have to build leveling platforms.

As the theater is undergoing reconstruction the job requirement may continuously change up until the day of setup.

... and of course there is only a small budget. If the $ were available they could rent one of the better equipped theaters in the area.

[George Friedman-Jimenez]

They won't get "4 corner surround feel" they will be some very bizarre comb filtering and it will suck.  But they dont' care so long as it looks cool. Party planners are willfully clueless.  They believe sound waves are light visible light...  goes where you point it.  Not really, and not indoors.  Oh well.

+1.
Just ask them to tell you which seat they want to get the "surround sound". You might be able to fit 2 or 3 seats into the "sweet spot" in the middle of the room. If more than 2 or 3 guests come, they can take turns getting the surround sound, maybe limit it to 5 minutes per person?

[Taylor Phillips]

They won't get "4 corner surround feel" they will be some very bizarre comb filtering and it will suck.  But they dont' care so long as it looks cool.

Party planners are willfully clueless.  They believe sound waves are light visible light...  goes where you point it.  Not really, and not indoors.  Oh well.

Could you set up the four K12s and not connect all of them, so that it looks like what they want but can sound like what you want?  I don't think too many people will notice that all the speakers aren't on if it's loud enough.

[Ivan Beaver]

Could you set up the four K12s and not connect all of them, so that it looks like what they want but can sound like what you want?  I don't think too many people will notice that all the speakers aren't on if it's loud enough.

I don't think so.

I can hear it now  "Hey dude-yer speaker ain't werkin'"

The worst comment I ever got was  "Hey dude-did you know your speakers are on fire?"  Or was it "Man-there is a car under your PA". or--------

[eric lenasbunt]

Could you set up the four K12s and not connect all of them, so that it looks like what they want but can sound like what you want?  I don't think too many people will notice that all the speakers aren't on if it's loud enough.

Funny, I was actually thinking this, as this happened accidentally a few years back.

The more I mull this over I am thinking 2 K12s on poles over subs facing out, 2 JF80's strapped to decorators truss in the corners, put on an Aux and left off for the most part. Honestly the room is tiny and they serve no purpose sound wise. But when someone REALLY wants to pay for gear that I told them they do not need I stop arguing and let them write a bigger check. Again, I told them this, but they want the look and idea that it is there.

And just to clarify, the truss is a single upright 12" box truss on a typical 2' square base plate, sand bagged or weighted, no truss system, just upright pieces that will probably have a pinspot shining up them and decorative crap all over it.

[eric lenasbunt]

I don't think so.

I can hear it now  "Hey dude-yer speaker ain't werkin'"

I would definitely plug them in, just maybe send little to no feed that way.

[Bob Leonard]

In a living room. Why all the hardware to fill a small room, why the truss, why all the bullshit for a DJ gig at a house. Set up speakers in the corner and play the music loud.

[Jordan Wolf]

In a living room. Why all the hardware to fill a small room, why the truss, why all the bullshit for a DJ gig at a house. Set up speakers in the corner and play the music loud.

It seems to me that the person writing the check is going for more of a look and a "feel" than something that sounds good - they want it loud, with lights flashing all over the place.  And, hey, if they're paying for the gear, he might as well give it to them…especially if it's just sitting on a shelf at the shop otherwise.  You get that ROI, darn it!!!

To the OP: make sure you compensate for the height of the speakers on the truss.  I'm used to dealing with 10' truss and 5' truss…add a few more feet to the height for some wiggle room and make sure there's enough trim height to work with in the living room.

I think the K12s over subs and the jf80s in back is a good idea - that way, if they really do hate how it sounds with everything blaring, you can "make it better" by going with the method you know would work best.

Best of luck!  Pictures would be…interesting, I'm sure.  Post some if you can.

[Bob Leonard]

And what is the ROI?

[eric lenasbunt]

Thanks Jordan, I think this is now the direction, though I am going back by with my A1 tomorrow to make sure I don't miss anything. 2 heads are better than 1 (except maybe with designers, too much 'vision').

I will take pics if the day doesn't get away from us.

And Bob, that's what I would do, but truss and crap is all the designer and his vision, not my call. Speaker placement is my call, but working within their design parameters.

And don't worry, there is a growing PITA charge.

[Jay Barracato]

Thanks Jordan, I think this is now the direction, though I am going back by with my A1 tomorrow to make sure I don't miss anything. 2 heads are better than 1 (except maybe with designers, too much 'vision').

I will take pics if the day doesn't get away from us.

And Bob, that's what I would do, but truss and crap is all the designer and his vision, not my call. Speaker placement is my call, but working within their design parameters.

And don't worry, there is a growing PITA charge.

The missing information is how high is the ceiling.

[eric lenasbunt]

Vaulted ceilings, more than high enough, at least 12' at sides and probably 15' in the middle. This is not an issue, mostly concerned with the weight/balance of the setup.

ROI=return on investment, or maybe you are asking how much. Well, fancy party and PITA charge equals a pretty good ROI.

[ProSoundWeb Community]