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Author Topic: vocals to the subs  (Read 5920 times)

John Luty

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vocals to the subs
« on: April 06, 2012, 10:10:15 pm »

while running sound lastweek a friend of mine that has been involved  in bands for a while told me that I should run the vucals through the subs as well as mains .has anyone ever heard of this before ?I always thought subs were for bass and kick drums not vocals
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Geoff Doane

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #1 on: April 06, 2012, 10:38:20 pm »

while running sound lastweek a friend of mine that has been involved  in bands for a while told me that I should run the vucals through the subs as well as mains .has anyone ever heard of this before ?I always thought subs were for bass and kick drums not vocals

Only if the vocalist is doing something out of the ordinary, like beat boxing.  Keeping the vocals out of the subs is precisely why many of us like aux fed subs.

GTD
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #2 on: April 06, 2012, 10:50:52 pm »

well i never thought of keeping the vocals out of the subs. my 18" subs or woofers as i call them operate from 40hz to 130hz with the old speakers and the new. i have always run everything throught the mains. i run 2 lines(l & r) from the main out to the eq and then to the ashly xover on the stage. i have my friend thats a drummer & sound mixer play my drums with the band while i get the mix i want and then we switch places. i also sing. i adjust the eq on my mic channel to get the vocal sound i like. i could go into further deatail about how and why i adjust the channel eq's and the main eq's but it may not work with your system or produce the sound your looking for. i am not saying that running a pa the way i do is the best way do it. but i do get the sound i want. i cross my speakers at 130hz and 1200hz. i can sing almost as low as the guy for the Oak Ridge boys. the women scream and go wild when he sings that line in the song Elvira. i guess they are running his vocals through the subs and the chairs are vibrating the womens "things" ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OdFghZmdwXk  i gotta run this song through an 18" woof woof at full power !
« Last Edit: April 06, 2012, 11:03:07 pm by Jeff Harrell »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #3 on: April 07, 2012, 12:20:55 am »

I have never seen much point in running vocals through my subs. I may be the exception being that I run a dual system and vocals are handled by SRX725s. If Barry White was singing through the system, then maybe, but even he didn't hit too many 40hz notes that I'm aware of.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #4 on: April 07, 2012, 12:30:41 am »

while running sound lastweek a friend of mine that has been involved  in bands for a while told me that I should run the vucals through the subs as well as mains .has anyone ever heard of this before ?I always thought subs were for bass and kick drums not vocals

Subs are for anything that has content in the pass band that you want reproduced.  Most generally, vocals do not have that content, but it depends on where the sub-LF crossover point occurs and what the voice is doing.  One poster mentioned beat-box, and ultra-low bass singers might be another.  Bear in mind that an operatic basso profundo's low 'A' is 110 Hz, and there will be less of that fundamental than you might be inclined to think.

While there is plenty of history for running systems "full range, with subs", there is no compelling reason to do so; claiming it's wrong to run subs from an aux send is wrong all by itself.

Do what works for you, your band and your audience.   If you buddy wants to critique your system and/or mix, let him pay the cover charge...
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 12:32:18 am by Tim McCulloch »
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"Practicing an art, no matter how well or badly, is a way to make your soul grow, for heaven's sake. Sing in the shower. Dance to the radio. Tell stories. Write a poem to a friend, even a lousy poem. Do it as well as you possible can. You will get an enormous reward. You will have created something."  - Kurt Vonnegut

Tim Perry

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #5 on: April 07, 2012, 04:29:43 am »

For me, the only time putting vocals into the subs has been needed was when a gospel singer wanted to "feel" himself.

Apparently these people were used to obnoxiously loud full range church systems and a 'normal' system didn't sound right to him.

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Bob Leonard

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #6 on: April 07, 2012, 06:21:25 am »

Subs are for anything that has content in the pass band that you want reproduced.  Most generally, vocals do not have that content, but it depends on where the sub-LF crossover point occurs and what the voice is doing.  One poster mentioned beat-box, and ultra-low bass singers might be another.  Bear in mind that an operatic basso profundo's low 'A' is 110 Hz, and there will be less of that fundamental than you might be inclined to think.

While there is plenty of history for running systems "full range, with subs", there is no compelling reason to do so; claiming it's wrong to run subs from an aux send is wrong all by itself.

Do what works for you, your band and your audience.   If you buddy wants to critique your system and/or mix, let him pay the cover charge...

I probably should have been more exact with my reply, and as Tim pointed out subs are for any content that requires reproduction in the frequency range covered by your subs.
 
Running a dual system and vocals without subs all these years has proven a number of things to me. First and formost it highlites the need for good coverage through the mid low frequency range. SRX725s spec down to 37hz and these cabinets more than make up for any loss of content that may occur without the use of a sub. Not all cabinets will do this or will do this well. The SRX722, with response down to 73hz, did not meet my needs and I have stopped using them.
 
I am also one of many people who still like the old school ways of running subs. I do not aux feed my subs, rather I tune my system for best response through the entire frequency spectrum, then add content if required with the channel strip. I have also found that since purchasing my APB I have become a big fan their channel strips and specifically the VARIABLE high pass filter on every channel. This works better for me than aux fed subs, another APB feature that is much more than just fluff.
 
To each his own in this world. There will be 1000 ways to get any job done, few that are correct, and many that are just horse shit, but you won't know until you try. Good luck. 
« Last Edit: April 07, 2012, 06:24:42 am by Bob Leonard »
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BOSTON STRONG........
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #7 on: April 07, 2012, 08:03:40 am »

Agreed with what the others have said.

If he wants a little more "bottom end or fullness", then that is what theg bass knob on the channel strip is for.  To "warm it up a bit".

Putting the vocal in the subs will generally only make they muddy-and unless you have a high pass filter on the mic (properly set of course)-all sorts of "other crap" will get into the subs-via the vocal mic.

If the main system is full range-there is no need to run the vocal into the subs.
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John Luty

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Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 09:09:51 am »

Agreed with what the others have said.

If he wants a little more "bottom end or fullness", then that is what theg bass knob on the channel strip is for.  To "warm it up a bit".

Putting the vocal in the subs will generally only make they muddy-and unless you have a high pass filter on the mic (properly set of course)-all sorts of "other crap" will get into the subs-via the vocal mic.

If the main system is full range-there is no need to run the vocal into the subs.
That has always been my train of thought granted I have not benn doing live sound for very long but I have been a dj/karaoke for some time now
Thanks for the input and this website I learn more everytime I log on
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: vocals to the subs
« Reply #8 on: April 07, 2012, 09:09:51 am »


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