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Author Topic: Scanners and movers jumping between scenes where they're in the same position  (Read 3678 times)

Mark Ellis

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I'm sure this is user error, but I can't wrap my head around the problem.

I'm programming a newly acquired Show Designer 1. Among my lights are Martin SCX700 scanners and Blizzard Northstar Quantum Pro Moving heads. My problem: I've made a scene that includes pan and tilt info for both units. I've copied that scene to another slot. When I go back and forth between the scenes both the scanner mirror as well as the moving head does a quick little jump out of position before returning to the correct spot. Any idea what setting I've screwed up, or what I could possibly be doing wrong?
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John Livings

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http://www.elationlighting.com/pdffiles/Show%20Designer%202%20Manual%201.2.pdf

Go to page 7 (of 31) and read "Fade Mode"

This is from the SD-2, Hope it helps.

Regards,  John
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Mark Ellis

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Thanks for the response, John. However, I'm not seeing how the modes of crossfade wouldmake a difference here. If one scene has pan and tilt levels set at 128, and the next scene does as well, why would the mirror jump while changing? Neither scene is set to crossfade so what would the crossfade mode have to do with this? Not being argumentative; I'm sure I'm just missing the point.

Again, the light(s) do settle into the correct position ASAP after the scene change.
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duane massey

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Mark, make certain that there wasn't an accidental inclusion of any fade info on the original scene. Probably not, but it is possible.
Did you copy the scene directly before modifying it? Is it happening on other scenes as well?

I have seen this happen before, but I honestly don't remember the solution. If anything comes to mind I'll post it.
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Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
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John Livings

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My basic understanding is the in a certain setup the head may go through all the channels and then land on the channel you selected.

You are on channel 30 and want to go to  channel 20, It is my understanding that the head will go from channel 20 to 255 than to channel 20.

By not using crossfade the fixture will go directly from channel 30 to channel 20.

I may be incorrect with this reading of the manual.

Regards,  John
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Mark Ellis

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My basic understanding is the in a certain setup the head may go through all the channels and then land on the channel you selected.

Yes, I think something is causing this to happen. Again, copying a scene and bouncing between them, all channel numbers should just be re-sent. Not that it should matter (if I understand correctly) but the scenes have 0 crossfade.

The plot thickens, however, and I may be able to provide some insight into why this is happening:

The Show Designer will be triggered by MIDI live, so I'll be limited to scene changes only during a show. Therefore, I am running the Show Designer in "add-on" (aka "pile on") mode, so that I can have a chase running on 1 fixture while another fixture changes independently. The only way I've been able to make this work is by recording a scene that is 0 on every channel. That is to say, I held the black button down for 2 seconds, hit the fixture button, lit up every fixture number button, then raised and lowered every fader to 0 (through every bank). I've saved that as a scene, and am using it as my basic starting point for every scene I create. So, starting with that patch (of all zeroes on every channel) I then call up the presets that set pan/tilt on my movers, save it as a scene, copy it directly to another scene and have my problem of the movers jumping in between scene changes before settling back into the correct pan/tilt. Crossfade is set to 0, and this behavior occurs whether I am in "add on" mode or not.

If, however, I skip the step of starting with my all zeroes scratch patch (I hold the black button for 2 seconds, load pan/tilt presets, save the scene, copy the scene, and bounce back and forth between them) the movers behave correctly and don't move in between scene changes, thereby fixing my original problem...

...and seemingly creating a new one. What am I doing wrong in creating of scene of all zeroes as my starting point? How do I create patches to work in "add on" mode where live I'll only have access to scene changes? And what's the difference between starting with my all zeroes patch, and holding down the black button for 2 seconds? Isn't that also, essentially, writing all zeroes on every channel?

I may be missing the point of "add on" mode entirely. If, for instance, I want to have my wall washers slowly changing colors independently of everything else that's happening on stage, is there another way to achieve this (again, with no manual access to the Show Designer at a gig, it will only receive MIDI scene changes)?

BTW, if anyone is in the Austin, TX area, knows this stuff very well, and wants to make some consulting money I sure could use the help...

And thanks, guys.
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John Livings

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Hopefully Duane (The resident SD Guru) figures this out.

I did read someplace that some features that are set to Zero may cause issues, The solution was to set that feature to 1.

Let us know if you get things going.

Regards,  John
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Mark Ellis

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I think I figured it out. Disregard my hypotheses thus far...

It appears that when you write a scene and then apply a preset, the values in the scene gets sent first, then the preset values are applied. For example: Say channel 1 in the scene (in the edit buffer or saved) is set to 0, and then you apply a preset that changes channel 1 value to 255 and the scene is saved. Then, when changing to that scene a value of 0 will be sent, and then a value of 255 immediately afterward.

Pan and tilt are the only things I've written presets for, so that is why I'm only seeing those channels jump.

So, what I've done is write a scratch scene by holding the black button for 2 seconds to clear the buffer completely, then set all channels EXCEPT any pan and tilt channels to 0. I call that patch, call up presets to set pan/tilt, save scene, copy scene and bounce between them with (now) no problem.

I assume this is the correct behavior for the show designer. Let me know if anyone sees anything I'm missing...
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duane massey

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Good job, Mark. I don't use the Preset function very often, and your detective work  is pretty much what I try to do. Think it thru, then f*** with it, then whack it a few times.
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Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
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Mark Ellis

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Thanks, Duane. Yeah, I've had numerous "I'm sure I did exactly the same thing twice in a row, and yet I've gotten two different outcomes" events...

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