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[Troy Lourens]

Hi all,

Just a question for you experienced sound folk.. I run a wet/dry/wet guitar rig (mainly for my IEM/own enjoyment) with no live cabs involved. I want to keep it simple out front though. I don't need or want to be stereo in FOH but at the same time its easier on my end to hand the stage hand or engineer 3 lines. Any other option I've found involves using mic combiners or sub mixers, each of which adds its own issues to the mix.

Signal chain is Fractal Audio Axe-fx in wet-dry-wet (LCR). Each out goes into a radial JDI > whirlwind splitter > FOH..

So my question is, which of the below methods is your preferred;

*3 lines - W/D/W
*2 lines - Stereo (left, center, right all combined to stereo and panned across the stereo field)
*2 lines - A wet and a dry signal

My "wet" signal is only delays tempo synched with tracks. No other fx.

Also, what is the best method or product you've found to take 3 signals to 1  or 2 at mic or line level in a single space rack unit or, preferably, something in the size or format of a larger DI box..

Cheers,
Troy

[RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS]

So my question is, which of the below methods is your preferred;

*3 lines - W/D/W
*2 lines - Stereo (left, center, right all combined to stereo and panned across the stereo field)
*2 lines - A wet and a dry signal

My "wet" signal is only delays tempo synched with tracks. No other fx.


Cheers,
Troy

Give me 3 lines and tell me how you typically like them panned for your effects and I am a happy camper.

[Jay Barracato]

+1

The best device for mixing those signals is a mixer.

[brian maddox]

So my question is, which of the below methods is your preferred;

*3 lines - W/D/W
*2 lines - Stereo (left, center, right all combined to stereo and panned across the stereo field)
*2 lines - A wet and a dry signal

My "wet" signal is only delays tempo synched with tracks. No other fx.

Also, what is the best method or product you've found to take 3 signals to 1  or 2 at mic or line level in a single space rack unit or, preferably, something in the size or format of a larger DI box..

Cheers,
Troy

i would be perfectly happy with 3 lines.  but that being said, if i were you, i'd mix the 3 to 2 and give a stereo mix so that you can preserve your effects balance.

[Bob Leonard]

From the olg guy point of view there's never a need to build complexity into a guitar rig unless there is a need for some very specialized effects, and then maybe. I've listened to the Ax-fx and agree that it's head and shoulders above the majority of the emulators I've heard or worked with, but still no substitute for a cabinet of any size with a mic in front of it.

All that being said one wet and one dry signal is more than enough to get the job done.

My weapon of choice for dealing with line level signals from instruments is at the link below, and can be found on ebay for usually less than $150. No loss to tone and will work with any type of effects unit, guitar amp, keyboard, etc.

 http://www.rane.com/sm26s.html

[Troy Lourens]

Thanks for the replies!

Yeah, I do some fairly specific delay things and, really, it's more for my ears than anything. I'll just send 3 lines to FOH and be done with it. That's the simplest for all involved I think. Then at least FOH has control over the delay. 90% of the time it's our regular sound person at the board anyway.

[David Shriver]

Hi Troy,

My day gig is as the house engineer for a venue.  I work with lots and lots of acts who tour without an engineer.  So I mix a few new groups almost every week.  While I strive to educate myself on a band's "sound" before they get to me I'm not going to be familiar with every song a band might do.  So if a guitar player gives me 3 lines I'm probably not going to know what to do with them.  How is the engineer supposed to know what blend of those 3 signals is the sound you want?  I'll take 2 feeds from the bass (if its acoustic) because I typically know what an acoustic bass should sound like.  But with lots of guitar effects, and something as specialized as you are using, I would have no idea what blend of those three inputs I should be putting out to the audience. 

For me, I'd rather have just a single feed from your rig and let you control the blend of wet and dry.  That way you have control of your sound.  If you want to send a stereo feed to FOH then 2 lines but you said you didn't care if you were in stereo for FOH. 

I find your 3 line setup really interesting, so with enough time at sound check it'd be cool to work out something with you to accommodate 3 feeds to FOH.  But in a run and gun show, with only a line check keep it as simple as possible and use up as few channels on the board as possible.

-d

Hi all,

Just a question for you experienced sound folk.. I run a wet/dry/wet guitar rig (mainly for my IEM/own enjoyment) with no live cabs involved. I want to keep it simple out front though. I don't need or want to be stereo in FOH but at the same time its easier on my end to hand the stage hand or engineer 3 lines. Any other option I've found involves using mic combiners or sub mixers, each of which adds its own issues to the mix.

Signal chain is Fractal Audio Axe-fx in wet-dry-wet (LCR). Each out goes into a radial JDI > whirlwind splitter > FOH..

So my question is, which of the below methods is your preferred;

*3 lines - W/D/W
*2 lines - Stereo (left, center, right all combined to stereo and panned across the stereo field)
*2 lines - A wet and a dry signal

My "wet" signal is only delays tempo synched with tracks. No other fx.

Also, what is the best method or product you've found to take 3 signals to 1  or 2 at mic or line level in a single space rack unit or, preferably, something in the size or format of a larger DI box..

Cheers,
Troy

[Tim Weaver]

Hand the engineer all 3 lines, BUT have a way to give him levels during soundcheck. A patch that has all three lines with dry guitar at the same level would work. The last thing you want is the house guy cranking the gain on lines 1 and 3 because nothing is on, then WHAMMO delay everywhere!

I would also have a way to give them either 2 or 1 line(s) in case channels are scarce, as would be the case if you open for a bigger band.

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

I would also have a way to give them either 2 or 1 line(s) in case channels are scarce, as would be the case if you open for a bigger band.

+1.  If you know what you want as far as balance and have everything worked out well with levels, then have a little sub-mixer handy for your 3 inputs, then 1 or 2 lines to FOH.  John McCutcheon always gives a great feed from stage as does Harry Manx.  Multi-instrumentalists with a few FX and they're always spot on.  Makes my job easy just blending in the voice.

[Troy Lourens]

You guys are awesome! Thanks again for all the replies.

Yeah soundcheck is two sounds, one dry and the other a patch with delay that should be the same level as dry (rhythmic delay U2 style). All other delay patches are relative to that one, and it is the loudest delay patch, so once that is set there should be no big surprises I hope. Dry is ALWAYS the same volume, same "amp", same settings same everything. No boosts, no Eq changes.

My main concern was situations where changeovers are quick and time is limited or maybe there aren't enough inputs. We aren't a headlining band yet, only a support (usually main) so we take a back seat to the main act. I just hate the idea of being "that guy" - the one who makes everyone's night a PITA. I do make a point of talking to the house guy or engineer (if we aren't using our own) at load in, to let them know our setup. And so far no problems.

I'll keep a mixer handy I think.

Cheers,
Troy

[Ned Ward]

I'd consider as well making up 2 sets of patches:

1 set for your guy where he's the engineer on 90% of your shows, and you'd want the 3 lines as you mentioned.

1 set for run and gun type shows where it's a mono mix, effects are at the level you want them so that what you give the sound guy is what you get with no guessing.

By having them saved as separate banks of presets, you can ensure your wet/dry mix is close. If you're not using the pedal inputs, you could probably assign a pedal to FX volume/mix so that you could adjust yourself if needed on the fly...

Having played a set this year at Bottom of the Hill where soundcheck was a line check, being able to quickly dial in your sound will be key as there are so many other issues the FOH guy is trying to suss out. I run a pedalboard so it was easier to tweak the delay mix for the room, but with your AxeFX you should be able to make that a per-patch feature or global (I'm guessing as I don't own one, but seems in the realm of possible).

[Sam Zuckerman]

If I have enough channels I wouldn't mind taking all three and would prefer that. If channels are scarce a wet/dry set up would be the next best thing. As mentioned earlier, make sure everything is at the same level so the mixing can be done out front. When you don't have your regular engineer I'd consider giving the house guy a set list with none or two notes about which songs should be FX heavy.

Out of curiosity is this a solo act or a band. What is the rest of the bands' set up and what kind of music?

[Troy Lourens]

If I have enough channels I wouldn't mind taking all three and would prefer that. If channels are scarce a wet/dry set up would be the next best thing. As mentioned earlier, make sure everything is at the same level so the mixing can be done out front. When you don't have your regular engineer I'd consider giving the house guy a set list with none or two notes about which songs should be FX heavy.

Out of curiosity is this a solo act or a band. What is the rest of the bands' set up and what kind of music?

Yeah, I think im going to grab some 3 way transformer iso'd splitters so I can split to our IEM rig, FOH in LCR, and then to a sub mixer so I can have the option of regular mono if needed. I'm using whirlwind 2 way splitters atm but am considering the radial 3 way with Jensen transformers. Are these worth the extra cost?

Our singer goes direct with an axefx as well and the bassist is DI out of his solid state ampeg. I want him to add a sansamp bass driver for a bit more grind. No cabs at all. Drums are acoustic/live.

IEM rig is LS9-16 with sennheiser wireless IEM, antenna combiner and external paddle all mounted in one case with multipin connections. Roll and rock! Having no cabs has improved EVERYTHING 1 million %. Much more consistent mix in our ears. Quicker changeovers as everything stays off stage (we can be onstage/offstage within 5min). More clarity at FOH. Just awesome.

We are 100% on ears. No wedges.

Style is rock/pop rock. 

[Tim Padrick]

Since what sounds 'right' to many players is much too wet out front, three lines would make me a happy boy (OK, happy old fart).

[Troy Lourens]

Since what sounds 'right' to many players is much too wet out front, three lines would make me a happy boy (OK, happy old fart).

I agree. What sounds good in my IEM (my self indulgent mix haha) should be different to out front. I hope that it is! No one needs to be subjected to my ears mix. Vocals? What vocals? There's a singer? How come that guitar is so loud?

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