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Author Topic: Sub upgrade Sanity Check  (Read 5428 times)

Don Simpson

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Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« on: February 23, 2012, 10:42:51 am »

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of ramping up our mains.

Current configuration:
All home made cabinets. Mainly Peavey BWX stuff.
4 - 18" cube subs (2 per side)
2 - 15" Mid / low mid (1 per side)
2 - horn 1" throat low high (1 per side)
4 - horn 1" throat high high (2 per side)

4 way electronic crossover, QSC amps. around 8100 watts total.
Total SPL is in the low 100's for the system.

genre: Live music (Rock, Classic 80's Rock, Country, etc)

The system sounds really good in small to nice medium, clubs.
The band is breaking into larger clubs now 500 to 900+ people clubs.
We are also doing some outside gigs this years as well.

I have ordered Qty 2 of the Yorkville SP2100P's they look like good speakers for price vs output.

I am planning to use the 21's as the lows of course.
Faze down to qty 2 - 18" cubes for low mids.
leaving the high packs in place for a short bit while I save up more money to replace.

For the faze out of the 18" cubes,  I was thinking about a pair of Yorkville SP801P 's.

The Yorkville 18's could be used in the smaller places alone and then add the 21's for the larger places. 

Has anyone used the Yorkville 21's with the 18's together? 
Thoughts opinions ???

Should I just get 2 more 21's instead of the 18's and call it a day??

Idea's certainly welcome for the high packs down the road as well.

Thanks
Don


 
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Mike Christy

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Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #1 on: February 23, 2012, 01:24:32 pm »

Hello everyone,

I'm in the process of ramping up our mains.

Current configuration:
All home made cabinets. Mainly Peavey BWX stuff.
4 - 18" cube subs (2 per side)
2 - 15" Mid / low mid (1 per side)
2 - horn 1" throat low high (1 per side)
4 - horn 1" throat high high (2 per side)

4 way electronic crossover, QSC amps. around 8100 watts total.
Total SPL is in the low 100's for the system.

genre: Live music (Rock, Classic 80's Rock, Country, etc)

The system sounds really good in small to nice medium, clubs.
The band is breaking into larger clubs now 500 to 900+ people clubs.
We are also doing some outside gigs this years as well.

I have ordered Qty 2 of the Yorkville SP2100P's they look like good speakers for price vs output.

I am planning to use the 21's as the lows of course.
Faze down to qty 2 - 18" cubes for low mids.
leaving the high packs in place for a short bit while I save up more money to replace.

For the faze out of the 18" cubes,  I was thinking about a pair of Yorkville SP801P 's.

The Yorkville 18's could be used in the smaller places alone and then add the 21's for the larger places. 

Has anyone used the Yorkville 21's with the 18's together? 
Thoughts opinions ???

Should I just get 2 more 21's instead of the 18's and call it a day??

Idea's certainly welcome for the high packs down the road as well.

Thanks
Don
Hello Don, do you mean LS2100P and LS801P? I see no SP series on the Yorkville website.

Lets assume LS and stay on the LS theme for a second. You do not want to use the 2100 and 801 together. There is no need really, they cover almost the same frequency spectrum. If you need more sub output, but more of the same sub.

As for what tops to use, the tops in the Elite series always struck me as funny, you could pick the E2152 ( 15x2 which is not a very popular confiuraiton for many people) or pick a 12 x1 on a stick solution, or even the E210, but I will say that I have not personally listened to any of these.

What others will say here ( mostly likely, or maybe not since Im saying it now ) is that you should define your needs (so many parameters to pick), then design a system to meet those needs, or buy one off the shelf.

The Yorkville Unity series is well designed and regarded, that may be a good starting point for you if you like Yorkville.

Good Luck,
Mike
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #2 on: February 23, 2012, 02:20:23 pm »

I'm unsure about the choice of 21" subs for this intended application. Is it because you have auditioned them and liked them?

FWIW I DJ contemporary rap and hiphop on 21" subs with the same B&C  driver (21SW152). They're awesome for this material. Today's tracks can contain a lot of strong sub40hz content.

I also have DJ'ed breaks for a classic rock band in my area that does shows the size you're looking at - including outdoor events that easily go 1000+ in attendance. They use four LS808s - and when they're playing those Yorkvilles absolutely destroy with their pounding low end.

But it's a low end tailored for a band. They really have no use for the extended low frequency response of my 21s.

If I were in a band I'd stick with 18s for subs myself.

FWIW
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Don Simpson

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Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #3 on: February 24, 2012, 03:57:05 am »

Thank you for the replies.
A set of the LS2100P came in today. These things pound. :-D
I would have gone the 18 route, but I need to give you some more
details about the band so I can better share my reasoning.
Our band is a 5 piece band. No biggie.
Drums : typical setup.
Bass : Phil Jones briefcase amp.
Keys : 2 players = 7 Keyboards, no onstage amplification.
Guitar : no onstage amplification.

We run in-ear monitors so the only real stage sound are the drums.
Everything goes out the mains. We're not really doing any hip-hop, but
we are doing a lot of 80 Rock and some big hair stuff.

With that configuration, you can tell now that there is much more strain put on the
Main's than a typical band will have. At least at the venues we are performing at.


In the small to medium sized clubs, our current system works fine. In the larger
clubs I have been made aware that we are desperately running out of low end.
In talking to a larger but local sound company, the guy told me that he had 8 of the Yorkville 21's that they use at many full scale concerts. I listened to one at his warehouse and was thoroughly impressed. He also has a few sets of the powered 18's.
They sounded awesome too. I picked the 21's because they are a tad bit more
potent than the 18's. Even though the 18's had a slightly tighter low end that I liked.

Instead of going with 8 18 subs, more amps, etc, etc.. I wanted to go with less total
number of cabinets, but more bang.

I was kicking around the 18's because of that slighter tighter thump that the 21's simply
don't give. Each cabinet configuration certainly has it plus's and minus's..

Also, with my sharing more about the band dynamics, you will see that the mids are also on a critical path to ensure superior clarity along with the added volume needs.

I love researching this stuff and asking opinions. I feel it helps me make better and more
informed decisions about this stuff.

I agree about the double 15" Yorkville's. I'm not sure that those are the best answer or not as I have not heard any of them. But I'm not married to Yorkville either. So opinions are certainly desired and welcomed.

Thanks
Don








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chuck clark

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Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #4 on: February 29, 2012, 01:20:37 am »


"Should I just get 2 more 21's instead of the 18's and call it a day??"


Yep.

Call it a day until the new weak spot in your system shows up. Heh, Heh.
Chuck
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Don Simpson

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Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #5 on: March 04, 2012, 02:00:00 am »

"Should I just get 2 more 21's instead of the 18's and call it a day??"


Yep.

Call it a day until the new weak spot in your system shows up. Heh, Heh.
Chuck

I am kicking around another set of the 21's for the larger gigs.. ;-)

I am however having difficulties finding a nice 5 way crossover. I found a Peavey and a Rane, but that's all I've found.. I'm not into the whole Drive Rack speaker management system rage. At least at this point.
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Brad Weber

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Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #6 on: March 05, 2012, 07:58:00 am »

I am however having difficulties finding a nice 5 way crossover. I found a Peavey and a Rane, but that's all I've found.. I'm not into the whole Drive Rack speaker management system rage. At least at this point.
If you are planning to upgrade or replace everything then it seems to make sense to put together a long term plan so that you make purchases that make sense in the long run.  You may not be into the speaker processor concept now but would it make more sense in the long term?  Would buying a five-way crossover now be purchasing something that you then have to later replace?

I would have gone the 18 route, but I need to give you some more
details about the band so I can better share my reasoning.
Our band is a 5 piece band. No biggie.
Drums : typical setup.
Bass : Phil Jones briefcase amp.
Keys : 2 players = 7 Keyboards, no onstage amplification.
Guitar : no onstage amplification.

We run in-ear monitors so the only real stage sound are the drums.
Everything goes out the mains. We're not really doing any hip-hop, but
we are doing a lot of 80 Rock and some big hair stuff.

With that configuration, you can tell now that there is much more strain put on the
Main's than a typical band will have. At least at the venues we are performing at.
I don't see anything in your description that suggests you really needing anything different than many bands, especially as you apparently have no vocals and few microphones in general to deal with.
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Don Simpson

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Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 09:42:29 am »

If you are planning to upgrade or replace everything then it seems to make sense to put together a long term plan so that you make purchases that make sense in the long run.  You may not be into the speaker processor concept now but would it make more sense in the long term?  Would buying a five-way crossover now be purchasing something that you then have to later replace?
I don't see anything in your description that suggests you really needing anything different than many bands, especially as you apparently have no vocals and few microphones in general to deal with.

Sorry.. 4 vocalist in the band. Tons of harmonies.
Most musicians use amps for their setups. This creates stage volume that helps fill the room a little.
Our band doesn't have stage volume.  (double edge sword for the sound guy)
With no real sound from the stage, it makes every event more intense through the mains regardless the size.

I actually ordered the Rane 5way unit. (I'm needing it for this weekend) If I get to a point where we need to get a management system in the future, I'll just make the switch.

Thanks
Don
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ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Sub upgrade Sanity Check
« Reply #7 on: March 06, 2012, 09:42:29 am »


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