ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: [1]   Go Down

Author Topic: Mid range boxes  (Read 4594 times)

Clark Johnson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22
Mid range boxes
« on: May 29, 2012, 11:31:46 am »

I have a 1400 seat auditorium built turn of the century.  The house system (installed in '85) is not being used and we have a small concert system that handles all of the different events.  The house system is 3 way, HF-1" EV compression drivers, MF - 2" Renkus Heinz compression drivers, LF - 18" EV subs

I would like to get the house system working again, and I've checked all the speakers which need a little TLC, but are in a repair status, not replace.  However, the problem is that the the spec sheet for the Renkus Heinz, SSD 5600, recommends the lowest xover at 250Hz, and the power handling doesn't see the loading gains until 500Hz ish. 

Is there a replacement that will work better than the current equipment?  I would like to have the xover around 100Hz so we can have aux fed subs, and only want to replace the MF since everything is working.

Thanks
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9145
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Mid range boxes
« Reply #1 on: May 29, 2012, 05:47:28 pm »

I have a 1400 seat auditorium built turn of the century.  The house system (installed in '85) is not being used and we have a small concert system that handles all of the different events.  The house system is 3 way, HF-1" EV compression drivers, MF - 2" Renkus Heinz compression drivers, LF - 18" EV subs

I would like to get the house system working again, and I've checked all the speakers which need a little TLC, but are in a repair status, not replace.  However, the problem is that the the spec sheet for the Renkus Heinz, SSD 5600, recommends the lowest xover at 250Hz, and the power handling doesn't see the loading gains until 500Hz ish. 

Is there a replacement that will work better than the current equipment?  I would like to have the xover around 100Hz so we can have aux fed subs, and only want to replace the MF since everything is working.

Thanks
It would help to know the models of the other parts.

First you have to figure out how much output is needed to match the other components.

You are not going to get a 2" to go down to 100hz-not at any level anyway.  So you are going to need to take a different route.  Maybe a single 12".  Whether or not in a horn depends on the rest of the system.

How wide does the coverage need to be?

Where is it in relation to the audience?  These things matter when looking at a replacement that will make more than just some noise.

Sometimes choosing the RIGHT piece of gear requires a bit more effort.

Also knowing the budget would help a great deal.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

Brad Weber

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2209
  • Marietta, GA
Re: Mid range boxes
« Reply #2 on: May 29, 2012, 05:57:39 pm »

I have a 1400 seat auditorium built turn of the century.  The house system (installed in '85) is not being used and we have a small concert system that handles all of the different events.  The house system is 3 way, HF-1" EV compression drivers, MF - 2" Renkus Heinz compression drivers, LF - 18" EV subs

I would like to get the house system working again, and I've checked all the speakers which need a little TLC, but are in a repair status, not replace.  However, the problem is that the the spec sheet for the Renkus Heinz, SSD 5600, recommends the lowest xover at 250Hz, and the power handling doesn't see the loading gains until 500Hz ish. 

Is there a replacement that will work better than the current equipment?  I would like to have the xover around 100Hz so we can have aux fed subs, and only want to replace the MF since everything is working.
Two things stand out to me.  First, with the SSD 5600 having a rated 250-4,000Hz response it sounds like the EVs are functioning as a low frequency section rather than as subwoofers. Second, the SSD 5600 is a compression driver so there is some associated horn, possibly a CBH horn, that also affects the related response, pattern, etc. that would be relevant to any potential changes or replacement.
 
Thus the challenge may be in maintaining the existing array performance while changing the 18" driver boxes from wider spectrum low frequency duty to dedicated subwoofer duty.  I do not know the crossover to the HF driver but I'm not sure that you will be able to find anything that can provide the same output, pattern control, etc. as the current mid-range driver and horn while also operating down to below 100Hz.  You may end up instead having to modify the speaker system for four-way operation, splitting the current low frequency spectrum as dedicated aux fed subs and a LF section between the subs and the existing R-H mid range assemblies.
Logged

duane massey

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1635
Re: Mid range boxes
« Reply #3 on: June 04, 2012, 12:40:30 am »

+1 on Brad and Ivan. If you want to use the 18's as subs you'll definitely need something between the 2" and the 18". 12" or maybe 10" in a properly designed horn or sealed enclosure would be my choice as well.
Logged
Duane Massey
Technician, musician, stubborn old guy
Houston, Texas

Clark Johnson

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 22
Re: Mid range boxes
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2012, 09:50:58 am »

+1 on Brad and Ivan. If you want to use the 18's as subs you'll definitely need something between the 2" and the 18". 12" or maybe 10" in a properly designed horn or sealed enclosure would be my choice as well.

Does someone make just a 10" or 12" in a sealed enclosure? 
Logged

Mark Mattocks

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 39
Re: Mid range boxes
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2012, 02:26:34 pm »

Does someone make just a 10" or 12" in a sealed enclosure?

There are lots of plans out there to build that type of box, but they are not as readily available from manufacturers as they used to be. The only such cabinet I've used in recent times is this one from Tannoy. It worked well with the rest of the system but i didn't spend much time listening to that box by itself.

http://www.tannoy.com/ProSummary.aspx#&&grGYNU3LZ4gYNakULRH9oc9QzBvmBkTP6wY42lVcA6iPf39Rx7oApvH77d0RlXG4H2r3kKsjueQSeHd/vGb2mfW4+qVwJMilRu+E6IswMMu3Ot2rLUREQ6VwlDcHkyT/ntbXgbsEX0poSBRJc2oN35DlZ/LZbRv+cCKvxomIK5un/3k2p907zeCMbI0RrvHVZONAzhFSWs4A5wEHUHMQDw==
Logged

Ivan Beaver

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 9145
  • Atlanta GA
Re: Mid range boxes
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 03:40:23 pm »

Does someone make just a 10" or 12" in a sealed enclosure?
The problem with a basic sealed enclosure is you may not have enough sensitivity to keep up with the rest of the system.

Of course a sealed box is a lot easier to build and also to integrate with the subs.

But I ma not aware of anybody making such a box.  Now -a-days-there are basically full range (or kinda) boxes and subs.   Very few people offer "seperate" boxes-as was common a couple of decades ago.

They have goes out of fashion for a number of reasons.  One of which is that it is physically impossible to get seperate boxes to be close enough to not have coupling and response issues around crossover.

Think of it like this.  Let's say you want to crossover around 1Khz (which is pretty low.  A rule of thumb is that the devices should be within 1/4wavelength of each other at crossover freq.

So that would be are 3".  If you crossover higher-then the devices need to be even closer.

Now what sort of seperate box are you going to get that can get the center of the 10" and the center of the HF that close?  Even the 10" is to large.

As the quest for a more coherent sound is sought-some of the old ways are quickly found to be-not so good.
Logged
A complex question is easily answered by a simple-easy to understand WRONG answer!

Ivan Beaver
Danley Sound Labs

PHYSICS- NOT FADS!

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Mid range boxes
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2012, 03:40:23 pm »


Pages: [1]   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.049 seconds with 25 queries.