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Author Topic: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?  (Read 24358 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #60 on: March 05, 2012, 03:45:32 pm »

excellent.  my obfuscation worked.  :)

the performer was female.  :)  and this was quite a few years ago, before she and the other performer i mentioned were 'involved' so i don't think that factored into it.

your point could still totally be true however.  i don't really know.  i really did feel bad for the BE.  i don't know if he ignored my advice out of professional obligation or ignorance, but either way he was perfectly nice to me and i hated to see him go through such a bad night...

Her husband is worse...

(edit) upon reflection, I see that this can apply to more than 4 people... so it's probably NOT who some of you are thinking of...
« Last Edit: March 05, 2012, 05:56:29 pm by Tim McCulloch »
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Chris Davis

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #61 on: March 05, 2012, 09:36:06 pm »

I read through that whole 2004/2007 diatribe. I thought the plastic surgery analogy was interesting. My response is if a band member ordered you to do the "after" to what you and the audience wanted to sound like the "before," which is truly unethical? I think the plastic surgeons that made the Cat Lady should be in jail.

Greg


+1  I have seen better looking burn victims.  I can imagine her surgeon to be a rather sinister individual.

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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #62 on: March 05, 2012, 09:40:04 pm »

+1  I have seen better looking burn victims.  I can imagine her surgeon to be a rather sinister individual.

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Jim McKeveny

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #63 on: March 06, 2012, 08:31:45 am »

Bad food, bad travel, bad hotel, bad sleep, bad hall, budget stagehands (or not enough), unrealistic production schedule, unrealistic stage volume, no rehearsal, no set sheet, bad comms,...

The older I get less and less am I frustrated by things that do not work. More and more I am amazed anything works at all. 
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Chris Davis

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #64 on: March 06, 2012, 01:38:55 pm »



That's amblyopia/strabismus, which can often be corrected.  Marty Feldman had more serious health issues though, if I recall.  Another celebrity who had lazy eye was Jack Elam who, in the spirit of staying on topic, coincidentally also played a "doctor" in a certain early 80's movie.  IIRC his female patient looked just fine, as in F-I-N-E.  :)

 
« Last Edit: March 06, 2012, 01:46:50 pm by Chris Davis »
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James Heyser

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #65 on: March 06, 2012, 05:15:39 pm »

I saw Rush twice last year in the SF bay area, one show had serious issues and the other was aweful for the first half and then spot on (instantly, like a switch had been thrown) after the intermission. 

At Shoreline Amphitheater sometimes the sound was loud to the point of overdriving something (not clear if it was drivers or earlier in the signal chain) and I was inclined to wear earplugs, then a song or two later I'd take them out and things sounded better (just OK, but better), then a song or two later things would get loud and crunchy again.  The clarity of the drums was very lacking. 

At what I remember as the Concord Pavilion (who knows what it's corporate sponsor's name is now, I forget!)  was far worse - halfway through the first set it was literally hard to enjoy a band I am fanatical of.  It was so bad I was thinking maybe somehow I was outside of the coverage area of the tops (the sad part is I had amazing seats I paid $250 for, face value!), then after the intermission BAM!, everything was spot on and the sound was amazing.  I'm sure something was routed wrong, my guess is that entire buss groups weren't going to the drivers covering my seating area and somebody noticed halfway through the show.  I would even believe that the signal to the tops covering me were not connected.

I appreciate that running sound for acres of coverage area must be challenging, I'm not intending this as a rant about somebody being a jack@ss or anything like that, it just is what it is.  At this scale any one of half a dozen people can make a mess of things, and catching it quickly is a whole challenge unto itself.

My apologies by the way for hijacking the thread from the lazy eye/plastic surgery discussion!  :-)
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Bill Schnake

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #66 on: March 11, 2012, 11:15:53 am »

I witnessed the absolute worst I've ever seen last night. Normally I'd be more inclined to start a thread in praise of a BE who did a great job on a band that I know well. I started a thread on the old forums a few years ago giving praise to the BE of Killswitch Engage, for delivering the cleanest and close to perfect mix of a metal band I've ever had the pleasure of listening to.

Other honorable mentions: Thrice, one of my favorite bands, sounded absolutely phenomenal when I caught them at the Showbox in Seattle last year. And the BE was very friendly when I chatted with him after the show.

Band of horses also had what I thought to be a great mix at the Paramount in Seattle.

But last night...goddamn. We've all heard good and bad mixes before sure, but I've never heard a bigger hack job of an otherwise talented band in my life. If anyone's curious they're a popular metal band touring with In Flames right now. In Flames sounded great last night by the way.

Now this is a band who hired the likes of Colin Richardson, considered the top metal mixer/producer in the industry, to either mix or full on produce their last 3 albums. All have excellent production.

Last night, the most dominating part of the mix was the attack of the kick, which was overwhelming. Everything else was muffled and buried. It was as if the only thing the guy likes to hear high end on is the kick, and then goes way overboard. Vocals and guitars very muddy, no definition or clarity whatsoever. And no apparent overheads in the mix either that I could hear. I noticed in the last couple songs it got marginally better, but overall not what I consider to be even remotely acceptable for a band of that caliber. PA was a vertec rig.

I actually saw this band before when they opened for Dream Theater at the Moore in Seattle, and remember thinking the same thing about 'really muffled everything, but the kick'. But that was a last minuted venue change and I was up on the third level where there was zero adequate coverage so I let my critique slide because there weren't speakers pointing anywhere near the upper levels.
 
I have a little touring experience but more often I'm the house guy accommodating the BE. While I may not agree with everyone's mix, I find most BE's at least throw up a decent mix.

Those of you who work in larger venues with larger touring acts, or providers for national acts: how often is it that you see an A or B level touring act seemingly unaware that the person they're paying is destroying their attempt to attain a sound quality comparable to the albums they spent so much time/money on? Maybe it happens more than I'm aware of. I was just utterly baffled that a guy could do that bad of a job on a band that good.

Last summer we were working a fair in Central Illinois in August.  We had a local act which we mixed an up and coming country act and a headliner who had several hits.  The first thing the BE did when he arrived was see just how much sound he could get out of the 850 rig.  I was OK with that.  They did their sound check, without the actual singer for the headliner coming in off the bus.   Everything was fine.  This particular act requested an M7CL at house and brought their own Midas H3000 for in-ear monitors.  The local openers went off without a hitch, the up and coming country act went off without a hitch and then we got to the headliner.   8)

The headliner comes out and the mix is OK, but we are not getting the vocals that should be on top.  The BE insists that it is a bad board channel and that we need to move the input after the first song.  We do that and no change.  We do this a couple of more times and with the same result so he thinks it is the snake channel.  So I call the stage and have my monitor guy move the snake singer to a different channel in the snake head…same result.  Finally, I take a close look at the board and the BE is clipping the input level of Headliner.  I mention to him that you can’t do that on a digital console and he explains to me why I am wrong.  I again say pull everything back and re-gain the Headliner’s input then bring up the main fader to make up the gain…no response.

After a dismal show for what should have been an easy day the BE says he will prove it is my system not his running of it.  He takes a line out of the H3000 plugs it into the house and it sound great.  So I told him to watch and learn.  I put the mic for the Headliner back in channel 26 where it was suppose to be.  Rolled off 6db of gain on the input, brought up the main fader on the M7CL to a respectable level and yelled into the same mic.  Surprisingly, move volume and no distortion.  Touring BE personnel are not the end all of knowledge.
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Bill Schnake

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Ryan O John

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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2012, 07:21:43 pm »

Just a few weeks ago, I did a crap show in Sydney, soundcheck was alright, once the room filled up, the response of the room changed significantly of course.  Unfortunately it was a sold out show, and I couldn't even get out of the tiny FOH booth...

Where I was, it sounded good, but there were massive nodes of sub, and low end that I didn't make it out to.  Unfortunate for anyone that was in those spots.

At least every show since then has been great, live and learn.
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Ryan John
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Re: How often do you see national level BE's absolutely ruin a bands sound?
« Reply #67 on: March 18, 2012, 07:21:43 pm »


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