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[Brian Sterr]

I am redoing the sound system for my church, a storefront style church. The room where I am installing the new sounds system has the following dimensions and characteristics:

• About 22' wide by 64' deep
• 10' drop ceiling (9' over the stage) (it's dropped about 2' from actual ceiling)
• Stage is carpeted, 1' above the flooring, and approximately 18' wide x 12' deep at one end of the room
• Church floor is vinyl tile over wood
• 2 Walls of stage are drywalled, the rest of the room is brick walls with plaster.

Due to the length of the room and other constraints, like the room being fairly narrow and the use of a projection screen near the stage, I was thinking about putting in 2 pairs of smaller speakers (8" woofer 2-ways) and wall-mounting them. One pair just in front of the stage, and the next, half way back in the room, all 4 speakers facing the back of the church. The ones I was looking at are JBL Control 28.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/198095-REG/JBL_CONTROL_28_WH_Control_28_WH_Speaker.html
I know these won't have much in the low end and was planning to compensate with a powered sub, like this Mackie:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Mackie-SRM1801-18in-1000W-Powered-Subwoofer-Black-106063407-i1536479.gc

The issue is that permanently mounting a pair of large 12" cabinets (flying or otherwise) is going to take a lot of room and the space is a little constricted as is, being only 22' wide by 10' high. Also, using smaller speakers seems like it may distribute the sound more evenly.

The sound system will mostly be used for reinforcing the sound of the live music. We have one or two guitars, a bass, drumset, and vocals. The idea is to run everything through the mixer and a crossover, splitting the signal between the subwoofer and 4 wall-mounted speakers. Does this sound like a good solution?

I was looking at the Mackie-2404 VLZ3 Mixer, but not sure what brand cross-overs would be good. I know some power amps have that feature on-board. Is that enough or should I purchase an actual cross-over component? Also some advice on proper amps for powering the speakers would be useful.

Furthermore, I want to run the guitars (electric) through the mixer and back to monitors for musicians and out through the main sound system. Direct Boxes should work for this, right? Any recommendations on brand, model?

Thanks for the help. I just want to make sure I'm putting together something that is going to sound good before I actually do it.

Our church is small and unfortunately cannot really afford professional advice locally. We're in New York City, so everything is expensive and there are a lot of people pretending to be professionals. Right now our setup is dismal. A Samson MDR1688 16 channel mixer (1 channel busted), running on Samson Q7 and Q8 mics, a Pyle Pro Power Amp running to 2 - 8" 2-way ceiling speakers and 2 - 4" *small* satellite speakers. Can't hear any vocals at all through the speakers. Instruments are using their own amps. All of this equipment is very low-end and the setup just is not working.

[Frank DeWitt]

You have a lot of questions, and a difficult room.  Given both of those, I would find a professional in your area and get some in person advice.  It could end up costing you less and giving you better sound.

Having said that,  Yes, I think speakers on the sides make sense in this case I also think one set half way back is a good idea, two sets 1/3 and 2/3 might be even better.  They will need to be delayed.  (This is not optional.) delay the 2 (and 3rd) row 1 ms for every foot from the front speakers plus about 10 ms)  The extra 10 ms will fool the brain into thinking the sound is coming from up front.

I would raise the drop ceiling as high as you can for sound and looks.

Yes, a DI is what you need for the guitars.  If the guitars have active pickups (Have a battery in them) then you can use passive DIs  I make and sell DIs so I can't recommend one.

Please, look into getting a pro in there.  It could save you a lot of money.

Frank

[Ivan Beaver]

I am redoing the sound system for my church, a storefront style church. The room where I am installing the new sounds system has the following dimensions and characteristics:

• About 22' wide by 64' deep
• 10' drop ceiling (9' over the stage) (it's dropped about 2' from actual ceiling)
• Stage is carpeted, 1' above the flooring, and approximately 18' wide x 12' deep at one end of the room
• Church floor is vinyl tile over wood
• 2 Walls of stage are drywalled, the rest of the room is brick walls with plaster.

Due to the length of the room and other constraints, like the room being fairly narrow and the use of a projection screen near the stage, I was thinking about putting in 2 pairs of smaller speakers (8" woofer 2-ways) and wall-mounting them. One pair just in front of the stage, and the next, half way back in the room, all 4 speakers facing the back of the church. The ones I was looking at are JBL Control 28.
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/198095-REG/JBL_CONTROL_28_WH_Control_28_WH_Speaker.html
I know these won't have much in the low end and was planning to compensate with a powered sub, like this Mackie:
http://www.guitarcenter.com/Mackie-SRM1801-18in-1000W-Powered-Subwoofer-Black-106063407-i1536479.gc

The issue is that permanently mounting a pair of large 12" cabinets (flying or otherwise) is going to take a lot of room and the space is a little constricted as is, being only 22' wide by 10' high. Also, using smaller speakers seems like it may distribute the sound more evenly.

The sound system will mostly be used for reinforcing the sound of the live music. We have one or two guitars, a bass, drumset, and vocals. The idea is to run everything through the mixer and a crossover, splitting the signal between the subwoofer and 4 wall-mounted speakers. Does this sound like a good solution?

The following has to be answered before you think about a design.  How even do you want the coverage to be-what is your budget FOR THE LOUDSPEAKERS & AMPS-Take the toal budget for the sound and video and subtract everything else out and see what you have left.

Here are the issues.  With a ceiling that low, It is going to be very hard to get even coverage front to back-side to side.

If you use small loudspeakers-they are not going to have any pattern control-so there will be alomost as much sound coming off the backside as the front-so the delay's will be interfering with the seats in the opposite direction of where they are pointed.

I would suggest a distributed ceiling speaker approach.  I prefer the Atlas FAP42's and the Atlas Sub 70 for subs.  The Atlas has a wider- less beamy pattern than most other ceilign speakers ( I have not tried all of them).  They are very reliable (we have installed tens of thousands with almost no failures).

When you add their subs (others I have tested sound like 5 gallon buckets being beat on) it can provide a very musical system.  With a lot smoother coverage than a couple of small speakers.

HOWEVER as with any system- you HAVE to have enough density to get even coverage-and 10' is going to require a bunch of them.

Of course if the budget is not there-use a couple of small speakers-and when people complain-tell them that they are going to have to spend a lot more moeny to get even coverage.  2 options   Raise the ceiling to say 20' (Pretty expensive) or install more loudspeakers in a distributed approach like I have described.

But it also comes down to the expectations of the various people involved.  They may be happy with your approach-it will make sound-just not evenly through the room and that may be all they are expecting.  But to do it right is going to cost a lot more.  Sorry.

[Brian Sterr]

Thanks for the input. Budget is fairly low, about $2-3000 for the loudspeakers and amps. Raising the ceiling isn't really possible, since we use our upstairs for a lot of things. We can't even really raise the drop ceiling due to some low-hanging cross-beams.

To cover the seating area of approximately 22' x 50' x 10' high, how many each of the ceiling speakers and subs (you're talking about the ceiling-mounted subs like this, right? http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/555-6770&scode=GS201&CAWELAID=543518172  )  do you think would be minimal. And which amps to drive them?

Thanks a lot for the ideas and input. I wish we had the funding to do it right, but it just isn't there. It's a small congregation, so there will probably have to be some compromises made in terms of overall quality of the end product, but I would like to make the most with what we've got.

[Mac Kerr]

Thanks for the input. Budget is fairly low, about $2-3000 for the loudspeakers and amps. Raising the ceiling isn't really possible, since we use our upstairs for a lot of things. We can't even really raise the drop ceiling due to some low-hanging cross-beams.

To cover the seating area of approximately 22' x 50' x 10' high, how many each of the ceiling speakers and subs (you're talking about the ceiling-mounted subs like this, right? http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/555-6770&scode=GS201&CAWELAID=543518172  )  do you think would be minimal. And which amps to drive them?

With a ceiling height of 10', and a seated audience, the speakers have about a 6' throw. If you assume a 90º coverage pattern that means each speaker covers a circle about 12' in diameter. Draw a bunch of 12' circles on a plan of the room to see what the coverage would be like. Do not leave any open spaces, at some frequencies the coverage will be less than 90º. Without doing the work myself, I would think you are looking at a maximum spacing of 10' in each direction, or 3 speakers wide by 6 speakers deep throughout the audience area. With 18-20 speakers you can tap the 70V speakers at 10W and drive them with a 250W amp, or tap them at a lower level and use a smaller amp. Adding ceiling mounted subs will increase the total number of speakers, and will increase the speaker density since they will be in addition to the main full range speakers.

Mac

[Ivan Beaver]

With a ceiling height of 10', and a seated audience, the speakers have about a 6' throw. If you assume a 90º coverage pattern that means each speaker covers a circle about 12' in diameter. Draw a bund of 12' circles on a plan of the room to see what the coverage would be like. Do not leave any open spaces, at some frequencies the coverage will be less than 90º. Without doing the work myself, I would think you are looking at a maximum spacing of 10' in each direction, or 3 speakers wide by 6 speakers deep throughout the audience area. With 18-20 speakers you can tap the 70V speakers at 10W and drive them with a 250W amp, or tap them at a lower level and use a smaller amp. Adding ceiling mounted subs will increase the total number of speakers, and will increase the speaker density since they will be in addition to the main full range speakers.

Mac

That pretty much does it.

I would use at least 4 subs in that space-spread around.  6 would be better (2 rows of 3) in the rectangular room.

But I don't like driving the subs on 70V (for transformer saturation issues)-but rather like to drive them in the 8 or 4 ohm (whatever subs you get) mode.  Yes there may be more line loss (depending on wire gauge) but the sound quality will be better on the lower freq.

If budget gets to be a problem-then don't start to cut the full range speakers.  Cut the subs.  you can always go back later and add more subs.  With the full range speakers you have to change the layout-possibly wire lengths and it gets messy real quick.

If he is doing live music, then I suggest using the highest maximum tap and getting an amp large enough to power them.  Amps are cheap.

I like to avoid using output transformers if possible.  My favorite moderat priced amp for 70V is a QSC RMX850 run in bridge mode.  This will give you the 70V output needed and around 600 watts of power available-without an output transformer.

Of course to get the system to sound right, a 2 channel DSP or crossover will be needed to keep the response within the respective ranges.  If a crossover is not used the subs will sound like they have no bass and the full range speakers will be bottoming out and distorting.

A little of EQ goes a long way on this type of system-but the results can be very good-given the limitations of the room.  He will get more even coverage and more gain before feedback out of the mics and have a whole lot more bass than using a couple of small speakers and delays.

[Ivan Beaver]

Thanks for the input. Budget is fairly low, about $2-3000 for the loudspeakers and amps. Raising the ceiling isn't really possible, since we use our upstairs for a lot of things. We can't even really raise the drop ceiling due to some low-hanging cross-beams.

To cover the seating area of approximately 22' x 50' x 10' high, how many each of the ceiling speakers and subs (you're talking about the ceiling-mounted subs like this, right? http://www.mcmelectronics.com/product/555-6770&scode=GS201&CAWELAID=543518172  )  do you think would be minimal. And which amps to drive them?

Thanks a lot for the ideas and input. I wish we had the funding to do it right, but it just isn't there. It's a small congregation, so there will probably have to be some compromises made in terms of overall quality of the end product, but I would like to make the most with what we've got.

With that sort of budget-I would forget the subs and just go with the ceiling speakers. If you use cheap speakers-then that is the sound you will get.

One thing you have to keep in mind.  If you go and spend their money on a system that isn't any/much better than what they have now-who is going to be responsible?  Change forthe sake of change is not doing anything.  Change for the sake of better-is what you are after.

Don't be tempted to go with cheap 8" full range speakers.  Yes they are cheaper-for a reason.  If all you were interested in was speech-then those would be OK (notice I did not say great).  But since you want to run music through them- you need something better.

Maybe you start with speakers on the front half of the room-Use Mac's idea of spacing-DON'T be tempted to "spread them out-you will have dead spots.  Do a smaller GOOD job-rather than a larger POOR job.  Explain to them that as they get more money, they can add more speakers towards the rear of the room.  Most will understand that.

I would get an amp that is large enough to drive the intended full layout.  That way you don't have to buy another amp later on (just more expense) and don't have to run another speaker cable (more expense).  I like the WSC RMX 850 bridged for most 70V systems.  You will get 600 watts available and that should be plenty for that setup-not counting subs.

The problem with putting a single sub is that the people close to the sub will be a lot louder than the people aways away.  As long as that is understood going in-that is fine.  But I would not want to have to try and explain it later.  That is why I like the distributed approach in a room like this.  More even coverage.

[Mac Kerr]

With that sort of budget-I would forget the subs and just go with the ceiling speakers. If you use cheap speakers-then that is the sound you will get.

One thing you have to keep in mind.  If you go and spend their money on a system that isn't any/much better than what they have now-who is going to be responsible?  Change forthe sake of change is not doing anything.  Change for the sake of better-is what you are after.

Don't be tempted to go with cheap 8" full range speakers.  Yes they are cheaper-for a reason.  If all you were interested in was speech-then those would be OK (notice I did not say great).  But since you want to run music through them- you need something better.

Maybe you start with speakers on the front half of the room-Use Mac's idea of spacing-DON'T be tempted to "spread them out-you will have dead spots.  Do a smaller GOOD job-rather than a larger POOR job.  Explain to them that as they get more money, they can add more speakers towards the rear of the room.  Most will understand that.

I would get an amp that is large enough to drive the intended full layout.  That way you don't have to buy another amp later on (just more expense) and don't have to run another speaker cable (more expense).  I like the WSC RMX 850 bridged for most 70V systems.  You will get 600 watts available and that should be plenty for that setup-not counting subs.

The problem with putting a single sub is that the people close to the sub will be a lot louder than the people aways away.  As long as that is understood going in-that is fine.  But I would not want to have to try and explain it later.  That is why I like the distributed approach in a room like this.  More even coverage.

With $3000 you can probably get all the speakers Ivan recommended and the spacing I recommended. Twenty full range speakers at about $75 is $1500, 6 of the subs at $350/pr is about a grand, the amp may push you just over the $3k limit.

As Ivan said, don't try to get away with wider spacing, it will just make the whole investment worthless. If the budget can't be handled, don't put in the subs, save them for another year, but put in the whole full range system.

Mac

[Jonathan Johnson]

Would there be any advantage to removing the drop ceiling altogether? I can't even begin to guess what's up there (ductwork, beams, conduits, cabling), but if the SoHo loft style suits you, you could remove the drop ceiling, rework the lighting and wiring a little, paint everything a flat black (or other dark color), and roll with it.

That might let you get the speakers up higher for more even coverage, and the irregularities of the stuff in the ceiling space will diffuse the sound (whereas acoustical tile absorbs), giving the room a little more liveness.

I can't imagine that doing this would be very expensive (other than reworking the wiring & lighting).

Just a thought. I could be totally wrong.

[Mac Kerr]

I can't imagine that doing this would be very expensive (other than reworking the wiring & lighting).

Also the much greater difficulty in mounting the speakers. The ceiling speakers being described mount quite easily in a hung ceiling. Without the ceiling each speaker will need to have a mounting system fabricated based on what the overhead structure is like at that point.

Mac

[Brad Weber]

It seems worth trying to get a better feel for what will be on stage, the use of the system, the expectations for the results and so on.  You mentioned "The sound system will mostly be used for reinforcing the sound of the live music.", but what kind of music and levels?  And what about spoken word?  You noted "We have one or two guitars, a bass, drumset, and vocals." and that currently "Instruments are using their own amps."  Are those acoustic drums?  Would bass and guitar amps still be used on stage?  You also noted "Furthermore, I want to run the guitars (electric) through the mixer and back to monitors for musicians and out through the main sound system."  What do you plan to do for monitoring and are you going to be able to control those levels?

The answers to some of these questions may affect whether you actually need subwoofers and even what reinforcement in general may be appropriate or required.  So before looking at potential solutions it might be good to first ascertain more about what, if any, reinforcement of the various instruments is actually required, the relative importance of speech intelligibility and localization, the sound levels that need to be supported, etc.


On some specifics, the Atlas SUB70 (SM8SUB70 or SM12SUB70) that Ivan mentioned is actually a surface mount box.  The Atlas FAPSUB ceiling sub you linked has a stated 45-120Hz response but that is +/-10dB while the +/-6dB response is 55-100Hz and when you look at the response graph for that product you find that it is a true 'one note wonder' centered at around 86Hz and the +/-3dB response looks more like 75Hz-110Hz.  With that ceiling sub you would probably want some processing and would likely be limited on output for sources such as kick and bass.

If you do go with distributed ceiling speakers then with the room dimensions involved it would be appropriate to create multiple delay zones in order to have any localization to the stage.  And while the subs noted have integral crossovers, you would need to high pass the rest of the speakers and EQ everything, so you're looking at some from of multiple output processor and multiple amp channels.

What is above the ceiling and what is the structure above?  If there is a lot going on in and above the ceiling then by the time you account for the actual seating layout, the ceiling grid layout, other ceiling mount devices (lights, HVAC grilles, sprinkler heads, etc.) and any interference above the ceiling where there may be building structure, ductwork, piping, conduit and so forth, the practical speaker layout for ceiling speakers may have to differ greatly from the theoretical layouts suggested.  And even ceiling speakers are supposed to have a secondary safety to structure (not to other building systems).

[Ivan Beaver]

It seems worth trying to get a better feel for what will be on stage, the use of the system, the expectations for the results and so on.  You mentioned "The sound system will mostly be used for reinforcing the sound of the live music.", but what kind of music and levels?  And what about spoken word?  You noted "We have one or two guitars, a bass, drumset, and vocals." and that currently "Instruments are using their own amps."  Are those acoustic drums?  Would bass and guitar amps still be used on stage?  You also noted "Furthermore, I want to run the guitars (electric) through the mixer and back to monitors for musicians and out through the main sound system."  What do you plan to do for monitoring and are you going to be able to control those levels?

The answers to some of these questions may affect whether you actually need subwoofers and even what reinforcement in general may be appropriate or required.  So before looking at potential solutions it might be good to first ascertain more about what, if any, reinforcement of the various instruments is actually required, the relative importance of speech intelligibility and localization, the sound levels that need to be supported, etc.


On some specifics, the Atlas SUB70 (SM8SUB70 or SM12SUB70) that Ivan mentioned is actually a surface mount box.  The Atlas FAPSUB ceiling sub you linked has a stated 45-120Hz response but that is +/-10dB while the +/-6dB response is 55-100Hz and when you look at the response graph for that product you find that it is a true 'one note wonder' centered at around 86Hz and the +/-3dB response looks more like 75Hz-110Hz.  With that ceiling sub you would probably want some processing and would likely be limited on output for sources such as kick and bass.

If you do go with distributed ceiling speakers then with the room dimensions involved it would be appropriate to create multiple delay zones in order to have any localization to the stage.  And while the subs noted have integral crossovers, you would need to high pass the rest of the speakers and EQ everything, so you're looking at some from of multiple output processor and multiple amp channels.

What is above the ceiling and what is the structure above?  If there is a lot going on in and above the ceiling then by the time you account for the actual seating layout, the ceiling grid layout, other ceiling mount devices (lights, HVAC grilles, sprinkler heads, etc.) and any interference above the ceiling where there may be building structure, ductwork, piping, conduit and so forth, the practical speaker layout for ceiling speakers may have to differ greatly from the theoretical layouts suggested.  And even ceiling speakers are supposed to have a secondary safety to structure (not to other building systems).

Years ago the recessed mounted sub was called the sub70-and that is the name that has "stuck" with me.  Sorry if I got the model numbers wrong.

Yes it does have a peak in the response-but a single eq filter takes care of that and evens out the response.  As compared to the other ceiling mounted subs of the same price-size range-I liked that one best.  But it has been a number of years since I did any testing.

Totally agreed it is  best to check for ceiling heights to make sure the speakers could actually be mounted there.  All part of the design process and making sure things are "accounted for". 

We have run into situations all the time that there is no place to put the speakers where they "should be".  So it runs into compromise situations-which often involve changing the wattage taps to keep the levels more consistant.  That is part of the "on the fly" engineering that often has to take place and having an understanding of the various compromises that need to be made.

That is part of the reason why professional are hired-to assess the situation-figure out what can and can't be done-and take responsibility for the end result.

It is not a simple matter of just "making sound come out".  Anybody with a little understanding of how to hook things up, can do that.  But making a good sound so that it can be enjoyed and is the same level through the room-is often quite a bit harder than most realise-as you well know.

[Brad Weber]

Yes it does have a peak in the response-but a single eq filter takes care of that and evens out the response.

Which assumes you have that EQ.  As Mac noted, almost $3k for the speakers, then add to that multiple amp channels and multiple output signal processing to support equalization for the subs and mains, high pass for the main speakers, delay for localization, etc.  A rack for that equipment, cabling and hardware and so on and pretty soon the total equipment cost starts to add up.  And along with the equipment you would require someone with sufficient knowledge to configure and program everything.  As you can see, a distributed ceiling speaker system may commonly be perceived as a low fidelity, low level but simple and inexpensive approach can be higher fidelity and level, but also not so simple or inexpensive.

Another potential option if the structure above the ceiling supports it (sorry, unintended pun) may be some compact two-way boxes that are either a horizontal format or that have a rotatable horn so they can be mounted horizontally.  Depending on the speakers, three or four pairs down the length of the room mounted at the ceiling and aimed to cover behind them might provide reasonable coverage. However, this approach would face some of the same challenges as a distributed ceiling speaker system in terms of localization, although the location in front of the listeners they cover should help.

[Brian Sterr]

Another potential option if the structure above the ceiling supports it (sorry, unintended pun) may be some compact two-way boxes that are either a horizontal format or that have a rotatable horn so they can be mounted horizontally.  Depending on the speakers, three or four pairs down the length of the room mounted at the ceiling and aimed to cover behind them might provide reasonable coverage. However, this approach would face some of the same challenges as a distributed ceiling speaker system in terms of localization, although the location in front of the listeners they cover should help.

How compact is compact? My original plan was 2 pairs of JBL Control 28's, wall-mounted vertically. There is definitely enough structure in the actual ceiling to support hanging some speakers, but are you thinking 2-ways that have a 12" woofer? 10"? Which brand/model, for example? I am more inclined to take an approach like this than the distributed ceiling speaker system.

Thanks

[Brad Weber]

How compact is compact? My original plan was 2 pairs of JBL Control 28's, wall-mounted vertically. There is definitely enough structure in the actual ceiling to support hanging some speakers, but are you thinking 2-ways that have a 12" woofer? 10"? Which brand/model, for example? I am more inclined to take an approach like this than the distributed ceiling speaker system.

The specifics would at least partially go back to what reinforcement is needed, if you don't really need much reinforcement of the bass and kick then it could probably be smaller boxes.  The Control 28 is a nominal 90x90 horn that actually varies quite a bit in pattern at different frequencies, but I was thinking of something maybe more like a 90x60 or so pattern and either intended to be mounted horizontally or that can be mounted horizontally with the horn rotated.

[Brian Sterr]

The specifics would at least partially go back to what reinforcement is needed, if you don't really need much reinforcement of the bass and kick then it could probably be smaller boxes.  The Control 28 is a nominal 90x90 horn that actually varies quite a bit in pattern at different frequencies, but I was thinking of something maybe more like a 90x60 or so pattern and either intended to be mounted horizontally or that can be mounted horizontally with the horn rotated.

Like this? How are EAW speakers? Don't know much about them. 90 x 60 rotatable horn and then mount them horizontally, if I followed your previous post.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497549-REG/EAW_0010075_VR21_Full_Range_2_Way_Loudspeaker.html

These, I imagine, are too cheap to provide good quality?

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/820963-REG/American_Audio_SENSE8_Sense_8_2_Way_8.html

or the larger version

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/820964-REG/American_Audio_SENSE12_Sense_12_2_Way_12.html

For reinforcement, it would be nice to get kick and bass, but not sure we can afford quality speakers that will allow it. Currently, drums are not reinforced and the bass has its own amp, which can be used in the future as well. It would be nice to put in two pairs of speakers, but I don't want to push quantity right now for the sake of quality. Maybe it's going to have to be done in stages. One pair of 12" speakers then another when we get more money.

Open to advice on speaker models that will allow for 90 x 60 pattern with horizontal mounting. That would really be ideal. Probably 12" 2-ways. Thanks for everyone's input and help.

[michael sveda]

I would look at sites like this to find quality gear:

www.sesystems.com

They have the Atlas, JBL and EV ceiling mount speakers.

I saw these in the showroom but have not heard them, may be an idea...  http://hkaudio.com/us/elements.php5

[Brad Weber]

Like this? How are EAW speakers? Don't know much about them. 90 x 60 rotatable horn and then mount them horizontally, if I followed your previous post.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/497549-REG/EAW_0010075_VR21_Full_Range_2_Way_Loudspeaker.html

Yes, something like that or maybe http://renkus-heinz.com/pdf_datasheets/SGSGX121.pdf (the passive version), http://www.jblpro.com/catalog/support/getfile.aspx?doctype=3&docid=1440 or http://www.communitypro.com/files/literature/spec%20sheets/IHP1296_SPEC.pdf.  But please keep in mid that this is a totally 'off the cuff' approach and I have not looked at anything in any level of detail to verify that it would work.

[Brian Sterr]

Thanks to everyone for their input. It has been most helpful. The church is going to go with a pair of white EAW VR21s or VR51s (still some measurements to do) hung horizontally in front of the stage. The horns on the speakers rotate to accommodate this and have a 90 x 60 pattern, so to start out with, it should be a good option within the means of the church. Found VR51s for $565 each, not a bad deal. And reading some comments on other pages of this forum, sounds like they're not the worst speakers we could buy.

In the future we may need to add another pair of speakers further back, but we'll start with one for now and get those set up right.

[ProSoundWeb Community]