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[Jamin Lynch]

Joking aside, this is a solution I have been waiting for. I think my generation will embrace technology like this wholeheartedly. The mobility obviously has trade-offs that the some old timers won't like, but for people learning to mix initially on this will likely adapt just fine. Compatibility, fragility, and tactility will all be issues to work with/work around, but the concept is a good candidate for the future of mixing.

Us old timers have been around long enough to know a good think when we see it....and a not so good thing.

They say "You can't teach and old dog new tricks". Maybe that's because he already knows all the tricks.

[Bryan Mac Berntsen]

Dont know if anyone else mentioned price, but Mackie's facebook page says they will sell for $999.00.....  Sounds very reasonable if they perform as advertised!!!  Plusssss this will give me excuse to buy ipad!!

[Randall Hyde]

Joking aside, this is a solution I have been waiting for. I think my generation will embrace technology like this wholeheartedly. The mobility obviously has trade-offs that the some old timers won't like, but for people learning to mix initially on this will likely adapt just fine. Compatibility, fragility, and tactility will all be issues to work with/work around, but the concept is a good candidate for the future of mixing.

I've been mixing on Software Audio Console (SAC) for a little over a year now. I've tried *really* hard to get into the virtual mixing mode of operation. Worked on a tablet computer (HP Touchsmart) and with mouse. I'm sorry, but if you need to make fast changes to audio while watching the band members (not a video screen), there is no way anyone will ever be able to convince me that virtual mixing is the "wave of the future." I'm sure some people will grow up on it and not realize what they are missing, but...

That said, I'd probably jump all over something like this little Mackie. It's inappropriate for many of the  "combat audio" gigs I do (festivals with lots of bands and no sound checks), but for a small band with limited requirements and not a whole lot of "during show" mixing, it will probably suffice.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

[Tim Weaver]

I've been mixing on Software Audio Console (SAC) for a little over a year now. I've tried *really* hard to get into the virtual mixing mode of operation. Worked on a tablet computer (HP Touchsmart) and with mouse. I'm sorry, but if you need to make fast changes to audio while watching the band members (not a video screen), there is no way anyone will ever be able to convince me that virtual mixing is the "wave of the future." I'm sure some people will grow up on it and not realize what they are missing, but...

That said, I'd probably jump all over something like this little Mackie. It's inappropriate for many of the  "combat audio" gigs I do (festivals with lots of bands and no sound checks), but for a small band with limited requirements and not a whole lot of "during show" mixing, it will probably suffice.
Cheers,
Randy Hyde

I see a divergence of consoles here. There will be consoles that highlight small footprint, wireless connectivity, and maximum mobility over knobs and faders. These little consoles will lose the snake as well, relying on wifi to get to FOH.

The big console surface with a knob for every function and a bunch of faders will go higher-end. It will be a luxury item for the tours and festivals that need or want to ride actual faders.

[kristianjohnsen]

Hello.

I have some random thoughts and comments on some of the new digital boards discussed here, in no particular order:

Mackie digital mixer with Ipad dock:

http://www.mackie.com/products/dl1608/

The Ipad must be control and monitoring only as it works wirelessly as well as docked.  Considering how cheap many products like GPS or phones with a touch screen have become I'm thinking it might have made as much sense to just give it a permanent screen built-in.  That way the users that do have an Ipad could have  remote mixing, yet people like me who currently have no wish to get a Ipad could still find uses for the mixer.  I know Ipads cost a lot more here than in the US, but to me it seems like Mackie are trying to make the product seem cheaper than it really is by trying to make us "forget" that we also need an Ipad for it to work.  An Ipad makes a pretty expensive screen at the rates they sell for here.  Also, most of my perceived uses for an Ipad are gig-related:  Could I still use it for those things while using it with the Mackie mixer?

I read somewhere that the mixer and the Ipad can be locked in place with "kensington"-style locks.

My main perceived use for the mixer would be for hotel staff to just control levels of stuff like mics and playback in a conference room.  But it will be a hard sell  as most conference managers I know would probably fear staff using the Ipad for all kinds of other things rendering it missing at a critical moment. 

Line 6 digital mixer:

http://line6.com/stagescape-m20d/

It's cool that they're thinking outside the box.  For many bands this will be a much more logical way of mixing from stage compared to the traditional way of doing things with channel, bus, aux, matrix, etc.
From a sound guy perspective I'm sceptical as those icons might end up confusing when all of a sudden the left guitar is the right one after the second band goes on, etc.  Also, the UI might make it easy to inadvertenty do "something stupid" to cause horrible feedback, etc.  I know it has lots of feedback suppression on-board.  Again, great for bands if they work well - maybe not-so-great for people who can handle manual control of things.  Also, the auto-identifying of speakers sounds a little scary, too.  What if I want to use an aux as a front fill?  Will the mixer start to work against me and not allow it, or try to bring up funny things in those speakers?

The looped 20 second virtual soundcheck function is super cool for bands that do their own sound from stage as they can all take turns stepping onto the dancefloor to hear how they sound in the mix (discounting direct sound vs PA-sound, of course).


Behringer analog mixers with Ipad dock:

http://www.behringer.com/news/

Behringer might actually be using some of the DSP horsepower in the Ipad as they basically use it as a plug-in host.  For instance, using the Ipad gives you access to the new Klark Technik FX processor.  I am curious to learn how well the mixer would function without the Ipad and how many functions would be missing.  Again, I believe the mixers are ordinary analog mixers with a digital plug-in host in form of an Ipad.


As far as I can tell, none of these products are really "soundguy running a small local company on the side"-style products.  Sure, many companies (even big ones) will eventually put these things in inventory to replace original 01Vs, MixWizes, 12 channel analog Yammi boards, Spirit Folios, etc to do simple bread-and-butter gigs; but from a design perspective they seem to cater to bands, musicians and hobbyists - and why not?  They're all cool little products.  As for these products threatening the existence of "real" mixers out in the wild, I think they're all meant for bands that run their own sound:  I have a stove at home that basically does the same as a professional stove (heat food) - doesn't mean that we all of a sudden see a bunch of home stoves in hotels and restaurants just because they're cheaper...


The really interesting news for the type of company mentioned above will be the Behringer X32 provided it's decent enough to be trusted as a go-to-product.  With the new Midas collaboration I don't doubt that the X32 will be a reasonable product for the smallest of sound companies, typically the ones who get by with an aged A&H GL-series mixer now, but who can't quite afford to get a used Yamaha LS9 or an used A&H Ilive.

http://www.behringer.com/EN/Products/X32.aspx

For the slightly bigger companies, the ones that have an owner who works full time, but who still only serve the local market the big news are the A&H GLD with a full feature-set and then the Midas Pro2/Pro2C for the slightly bigger guys who occationaly have to cater to BEs of bands you have heard of when they visit the local club.  Both seem to be very capable products in it's price range and seem to belong to the "next generation" of digital mixers.  The Cat5 snake as standard already seems to confirm this.

http://www.allen-heath.com/uk/Products/pages/ProductsListing.aspx?CatId=GLDSeries

http://www.midasconsoles.com/pro2_intro.php

[Justice C. Bigler]

Mackie sure made a bold decision with this one. It's unfortunate though that they didn't just go ahead and put the UI on the console itself and then integrate the iPad as a wireless remote unit. If the Mackie hardware in this mixer is going to list for ~$1,000, they could have added a screen and touch interface for another $500, and they would have killed Yamaha (they probably still will).

Surely the iPad is just the interface , right? I mean it doesn't actually use the iPad for signal processing does it? The reliability of the network connection is what scare me most in this set up. If you lose the network connection from the iPad to the console, then you are hosed (until you plug it back into the mixer?).

I'm sure there are going to be alot of ankle bitter club rats out there that are going to learn the hard way that tablets aren't always the best tool for every job.

[kristianjohnsen]

Just imagine years from now people associating a quality mix created on an analog console with a capability beyond that they understand and thus representing some kind of ancient magic or superhuman capability.

In a sense we are already there:  Before sound production was affordable (or even invented) people still knew how to shut up and actually listen to the instruments being played.  A skill almost forgotten, it seems sometimes.

PS:  A pro sound mixing console is a tool.  Even with all the fancy new appliances out there, we still have a market for hammers and saws at the hardware store. 

Similarly, as long as we have concert productions there will still be a need for proper mixing desks and the needs and preferences of the people using them will dictate what needs to be manufacturered in order for sales to prevail. 

If funny user interfaces or lack of features prevents professionals from embracing new technology these professionals will just keep using aged mixers of yesteryear in the lack of replacements and manufacturers will understand that this is how they'll need to keep making mixers.  If this means that the "mass market mixers" won't subsidize the price of the pro brethren it'll just mean that the people who really need the pro desks will have to pay a premium to support the R&D and small production runs of the true pro products.  Which is how it's always been, anyway.

These new entry-level products are cool for what they are, and I don't see them making us obsolete just yet.  In fact, it might work to our advantage:  Some local band might have had the ability to "force" the local sound guy to come and do gigs on their aged Soundcraft or Allen&Heath analog mixer with all-Behringer outboard, but when it comes to these new  digital products we may see more of a divide where "this is the band's onstage mixer we use to do our own sound" and "for big gigs we have a sound guy come in with his own board".

Our skill and service is still mainly what makes us valuable!

[Dave Mathew]

gotta love the marketing video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACo3VgXijlU&feature=player_embedded

[Steve Hurt]

gotta love the marketing video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ACo3VgXijlU&feature=player_embedded

Their marketing guys must have "taken too much LDS in the 60's"

[David Morison]

Their marketing guys must have "taken too much LDS in the 60's"

Mormons make you hallucinate? I knew they had some slightly unusual beliefs, but that's a new one on me!

[ProSoundWeb Community]