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Author Topic: questions on building my first PA system setup  (Read 8496 times)

Brad Weber

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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #10 on: January 23, 2012, 11:04:32 am »

correct.  currently I control this through my mixer, basically I use a Sub 1 output to control my subwoofers independently and I'm utilizing that DBX as my equalizer to cut some of the heavy bass from hitting the eon's presently.
The integrated crossover function of the CS2000H might be much better for that purpose however you might want to consider a system processor.

I agree the controls on the enforcer are a little lacking, however they aren't too horrible considerin.
My point was really that it would be sort of pointless to low pass those subs at 45Hz and you don't low pass "subwoofers" at 800Hz (although that does let you effectively take the internal filter out of consideration if you use an external crossover) so it looks like they probably stuck a readily available and inexpensive variable low pass filter in the box rather than one really designed specifically for it.  That also addresses the above point as Seismic recommends an external crossover for their subs.

it would typically be hip-hop, R&B, Rock, and the occasional Dubstep/techno style that seems to be growing as a major genre.  would need to be pretty loud, and bass would be important.  the Eon's were really more of an ultra portable good PA for outside at relatively decent sound levels for smaller outdoor country parties.  they did the job well. 

budget is small at the moment.  I'm thinking no more than 700 per speaker as of now.
What improvement are you expecting over the EONs?  The CS2000H is rated at 425W/ch into 8 Ohms and 700W/ch into 4 Ohms, but those are 1kHz ratings so expect maybe around 350W/ch @ 8 Ohms and 600W/ch into 4 Ohms for subs or mains duty.  With that power and a $700 per speaker budget, I'm not sure you may indeed be able to get some improvement over the EON 315s, but perhaps not as significant an improvement as you might hope.  Given you needs and budget you might be better to focus on adding another sub.
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Phil Johnson

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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #11 on: January 23, 2012, 01:46:10 pm »

The integrated crossover function of the CS2000H might be much better for that purpose however you might want to consider a system processor.
My point was really that it would be sort of pointless to low pass those subs at 45Hz and you don't low pass "subwoofers" at 800Hz (although that does let you effectively take the internal filter out of consideration if you use an external crossover) so it looks like they probably stuck a readily available and inexpensive variable low pass filter in the box rather than one really designed specifically for it.  That also addresses the above point as Seismic recommends an external crossover for their subs.
What improvement are you expecting over the EONs?  The CS2000H is rated at 425W/ch into 8 Ohms and 700W/ch into 4 Ohms, but those are 1kHz ratings so expect maybe around 350W/ch @ 8 Ohms and 600W/ch into 4 Ohms for subs or mains duty.  With that power and a $700 per speaker budget, I'm not sure you may indeed be able to get some improvement over the EON 315s, but perhaps not as significant an improvement as you might hope.  Given you needs and budget you might be better to focus on adding another sub.

I was always told the watts an amp puts out is par to meaningless as it is how well that amp compliments a speaker.  considering these were about 1000$ amps back in the day, I cannot imagine that they don't make a single speaker for less than 700 dollars for one speaker that would sound better and blast better than a single eon 315. 
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Brad Weber

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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #12 on: January 23, 2012, 03:21:15 pm »

I was always told the watts an amp puts out is par to meaningless as it is how well that amp compliments a speaker.  considering these were about 1000$ amps back in the day, I cannot imagine that they don't make a single speaker for less than 700 dollars for one speaker that would sound better and blast better than a single eon 315.
Is it your friends that suggested you buy Samson wireless mics and a Behringer mixer the ones that told you that the amp rating has no relevance to how well it matches a speaker?  And are they the ones suggesting that you spend your money on replacements for the EONs?

For $700 then unless you go used you are looking at something like the JBL JRX515 or MRX512M, the Yamaha S112V or S215V or the EV Sx300e or Zx4.  Those combined with the Peavey amps may sound better than the EON 315s but there may not be as much difference as you think.   On the other hand, that same money used to get another sub and a processor with a crossover, a high pass for the sub and some parametric EQ may make a more noticeable difference, especially for some of the bass heavy applications.

I'd guess that your sub is actually a limiting factor even with the EONs, especially with your processing.  The specs for the Seismic Audio Enforcer are a bit questionable.  They 're rated at 1000W RMS and 2000W Peak, so the "RMS" rating is probably a Program rating and the continuous or long term rating would actually be 500W.  The frequency response is specified as 45Hz to 2kHz, but no limits are given so those are probably -10dB points or something like that rather than a +/-3dB response.  And there is no response chart so there is no way to tell if the stated 101dB sensitivity applies to the full response, it could well apply to the response at 2kHz with the sensitivity at the frequencies where you'd use it being much less.  The net result is that the sub is likely to be capable of much less in real use than the specs may suggest.  So add a second sub, high pass it to keep out very low frequency junk and properly cross it over to your mains at maybe 100-120Hz and you may get more out of your system than adding new mains without addressing the subwoofer or processing.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #13 on: January 23, 2012, 03:48:21 pm »

The ..........Seismic Audio Enforcer.........  low frequency junk

Edited for clarity......... :-[

These things are made out of "particle board", for heaven's sake.  I believe they do claim that the front panel is plywood, though.  A complete waste of funds that could be spent on something built of proper and durable components.
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Phil Johnson

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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #14 on: January 25, 2012, 07:37:14 am »

Is it your friends that suggested you buy Samson wireless mics and a Behringer mixer the ones that told you that the amp rating has no relevance to how well it matches a speaker?  And are they the ones suggesting that you spend your money on replacements for the EONs?

For $700 then unless you go used you are looking at something like the JBL JRX515 or MRX512M, the Yamaha S112V or S215V or the EV Sx300e or Zx4.  Those combined with the Peavey amps may sound better than the EON 315s but there may not be as much difference as you think.   On the other hand, that same money used to get another sub and a processor with a crossover, a high pass for the sub and some parametric EQ may make a more noticeable difference, especially for some of the bass heavy applications.

I'd guess that your sub is actually a limiting factor even with the EONs, especially with your processing.  The specs for the Seismic Audio Enforcer are a bit questionable.  They 're rated at 1000W RMS and 2000W Peak, so the "RMS" rating is probably a Program rating and the continuous or long term rating would actually be 500W.  The frequency response is specified as 45Hz to 2kHz, but no limits are given so those are probably -10dB points or something like that rather than a +/-3dB response.  And there is no response chart so there is no way to tell if the stated 101dB sensitivity applies to the full response, it could well apply to the response at 2kHz with the sensitivity at the frequencies where you'd use it being much less.  The net result is that the sub is likely to be capable of much less in real use than the specs may suggest.  So add a second sub, high pass it to keep out very low frequency junk and properly cross it over to your mains at maybe 100-120Hz and you may get more out of your system than adding new mains without addressing the subwoofer or processing.

OK brad, so you are telling me my mixer is crap.  thus far I love this mixer and have no complaints at all.  my budget is very low for the moment. 

yes I know the seismic was cheap and a piece.  I'd rather have a pair of dual 18 yamaha club subwoofers, problem is I don't have an amp that would power them I don't think. or the money really. or do you think these 2 CS2000H's will do the trick at least close to anyway.  on top of that you are saying go with yamaha dual 15 speakers, is that also correct?
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #15 on: January 25, 2012, 07:57:40 am »

OK brad, so you are telling me my mixer is crap.  thus far I love this mixer and have no complaints at all.  my budget is very low for the moment. 

yes I know the seismic was cheap and a piece.  I'd rather have a pair of dual 18 yamaha club subwoofers, problem is I don't have an amp that would power them I don't think. or the money really. or do you think these 2 CS2000H's will do the trick at least close to anyway.  on top of that you are saying go with yamaha dual 15 speakers, is that also correct?

If the sensitivity of the yamaha subs are greater than the sub you have now the amp you have will power them and you will get more sub(and better sounding) than what you have currently. For such a wide range of genre I'm pretty sure a dual 15 cab will help but I'm no fan of 15's at all.

Get an array-able 12 that has the sensitivity to do what you need it to do until then work with what you have. 15 and larger is for subs imo and get a different sub, you can power it with whatever amp you have now and it will probably outperform what you have now.
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Brad Weber

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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2012, 08:21:04 am »

OK brad, so you are telling me my mixer is crap.  thus far I love this mixer and have no complaints at all.  my budget is very low for the moment. 

yes I know the seismic was cheap and a piece.  I'd rather have a pair of dual 18 yamaha club subwoofers, problem is I don't have an amp that would power them I don't think. or the money really. or do you think these 2 CS2000H's will do the trick at least close to anyway.  on top of that you are saying go with yamaha dual 15 speakers, is that also correct?
Not at all.  What I was suggesting is that with some of the types of music you noted and your tight budget you may be better off to look at spending the money you have on subs and processing rather than on new mains.  The EONs may not be the best, but the single Seismic sub and lack of any crossover are most likely to be the limiting factors with what you apparently currently have.  Get an actual crossover or processor with a crossover and maybe look at some subs that you could power with the Peavey amps you have.
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Re: questions on building my first PA system setup
« Reply #16 on: January 25, 2012, 08:21:04 am »


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