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[Dave Bednarski]

I am looking for a simple XLR, A/B switch box or foot pedal. I've done a fair amount of searching on this and no luck.  I am trying to avoid further band infighting w/ the sound guy (me) and do it on a reasonable budget.

Maybe the XLR switch is dumb all together.  IDK+anymore.

Our horn player is now up to 4 instruments + vocals: bari sax, tenor, flute, trumpet.  For awhile he played 1 sax into a waist level 58, sang into his vocal mic and all was well in the world.

Now we've been unable to find a happy medium between the bari & the tenor sharing the same mic.  The range is quite different.  He doesn't think the bari is being heard & the tenor is way to loud.

Further more, his playing the trumpet & flute into the vocal mic pisses off the other 5 vocalist who's monitor mixes are randomly blasted w/ bursts of trumpet... and the flute of course is never loud enough.

Solution considering...

• Vocal mic strictly vocals.
• Add second mic for flute + trumpet & attach an extension arm at waist level for the sax mic.
• Route both mics into two A/B splitters: 1 = "A" flute, "B" trumpet & 2 = "A" tenor, "B" bari.
• This should give me four sends to the snake for his nonsense - keeping monitor & house mixes more manageable.

CONS: eats up more channels but I have room & if he doesnt switch into the right mode, (i.e., trumpet on flute, or tenor on bari) we're almost back square one.

Is there a better way?  If not, any suggestions on an A/B XLR splitter or can I get away w/ one that is intended for guitar/effects routing?

[Matt Errend]

I am looking for a simple XLR, A/B switch box or foot pedal. I've done a fair amount of searching on this and no luck.  I am trying to avoid further band infighting w/ the sound guy (me) and do it on a reasonable budget.

Maybe the XLR switch is dumb all together.  IDK+anymore.

Our horn player is now up to 4 instruments + vocals: bari sax, tenor, flute, trumpet.  For awhile he played 1 sax into a waist level 58, sang into his vocal mic and all was well in the world.

Now we've been unable to find a happy medium between the bari & the tenor sharing the same mic.  The range is quite different.  He doesn't think the bari is being heard & the tenor is way to loud.

Further more, his playing the trumpet & flute into the vocal mic pisses off the other 5 vocalist who's monitor mixes are randomly blasted w/ bursts of trumpet... and the flute of course is never loud enough.

Solution considering...

• Vocal mic strictly vocals.
• Add second mic for flute + trumpet & attach an extension arm at waist level for the sax mic.
• Route both mics into two A/B splitters: 1 = "A" flute, "B" trumpet & 2 = "A" tenor, "B" bari.
• This should give me four sends to the snake for his nonsense - keeping monitor & house mixes more manageable.

CONS: eats up more channels but I have room & if he doesnt switch into the right mode, (i.e., trumpet on flute, or tenor on bari) we're almost back square one.

Is there a better way?  If not, any suggestions on an A/B XLR splitter or can I get away w/ one that is intended for guitar/effects routing?

http://www.radialeng.com/re-hotshot-abi.htm

[brian maddox]

Is there a better way?  If not, any suggestions on an A/B XLR splitter or can I get away w/ one that is intended for guitar/effects routing?

seems a reasonable approach.  if you're mixing monitors from FOH you could do the switching yourself and just y the miss to two inputs.  but part of me prefers the idea of putting the switching back on the player.  he'll notice with the saxes if they're set wrong and fix it probably faster than you will.

i do wonder about the volume difference between the flute and trumpet though.  is the flute too quiet using the vocal mic? 

[Dave Bednarski]

http://www.radialeng.com/re-hotshot-abi.htm

The Radial HotShot looks like it will do it.  If it had an LED indicator that would be ideal but I guess he can figure it out/keep track.

i do wonder about the volume difference between the flute and trumpet though.  is the flute too quiet using the vocal mic?

I am mixing monitors from FOH.  I could probably find a happier medium between the flute & vocal mic & save on one switch box.  He is extremely very loud singer and also does the majority of the "MC"ing between songs.  Mainly he can't hear the flute in the monitors even though I bump it up in the house mix he swears no one is hearing his playing.  (there is a wife/spouse factor at play here)

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

The Radial HotShot looks like it will do it.  If it had an LED indicator that would be ideal but I guess he can figure it out/keep track.I am mixing monitors from FOH.  I could probably find a happier medium between the flute & vocal mic & save on one switch box.  He is extremely very loud singer and also does the majority of the "MC"ing between songs.  Mainly he can't hear the flute in the monitors even though I bump it up in the house mix he swears no one is hearing his playing.  (there is a wife/spouse factor at play here)

Dave.....

Without asking for more information.........

Have you thought of splitting one or the other of the mics into two channels  at the board and processing them as needed? 

OK.  Now I have to ask......

What mics do you have available for your use?
Analog or digital console?
Any multi-band comps available?

[Geoff Doane]

  Mainly he can't hear the flute in the monitors even though I bump it up in the house mix he swears no one is hearing his playing.  (there is a wife/spouse factor at play here)

And I thought that was only a problem with guitar players' girlfriends  .

Sounds like like this would be one of those exceptions where mixing on the trim makes sense.

The Radial selects between two sources.  What you really want to do is select between two destinations.  This Whirlwind box will do that.

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/miclineinst-switchers/selector-xl

It needs a 9V or external power.  This other, mute-only, box has an LED that runs off phantom power, but you would need more than one box, and wye the mic into it.

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/miclineinst-switchers/mic-mute (model PP)

I used to deal with a lead singer who also played trumpet and congas.  We eventually settled on using the vocal mic for vocals only, and the conga mic (with a small plexi shield behind it) did double duty for the trumpet.  I quickly found out that vocal EQ was just about the last thing I wanted on a trumpet.

GTD

[Andrew Broughton]

Why not just use clip-on mics on each of the instruments? Keep the vocal mic for the vocals and each other instrument has it's own channel.

[Dave Bednarski]

Have you thought of splitting one or the other of the mics into two channels  at the board and processing them as needed? 

What mics do you have available for your use?
Analog or digital console?
Any multi-band comps available?

Yes, currently I am splitting the sax mic into two destinations but for different reasons.  He insists on keeping his effects rack on stage.  The splitter gives me 1 dry signal and 1 wet at the board.

We have a mix of Shure & Sennheiser mics, with enough spares to move around:

Shure: 57s, 58/58beta, Beta 96 & 27, PG56, PG81s, Beta 52, Snh: 945, 840, 838, 906

GL2400/24 & Personus SL24.  We've been using the StudioLive consistently for last year.

The Radial selects between two sources.  What you really want to do is select between two destinations.  This Whirlwind box will do that.

http://whirlwindusa.com/catalog/black-boxes-effects-and-dis/miclineinst-switchers/selector-xl

It needs a 9V or external power.  This other, mute-only, box has an LED that runs off phantom power, but you would need more than one box, and wye the mic into it.

Thank you sir!

Why not just use clip-on mics on each of the instruments? Keep the vocal mic for the vocals and each other instrument has it's own channel.

"If [he] is going to go that route, it needs to be wireless and if its going to be wireless it needs to be best there available which is too expensive."  (he can be cheap)

[Mac Kerr]

"If [he] is going to go that route, it needs to be wireless and if its going to be wireless it needs to be best there available which is too expensive."  (he can be cheap)

So, he can stand in one place to play into a stand mic, but a clip on has to be wireless? I'm with Andrew.

Mac

[Dave Bednarski]

So, he can stand in one place to play into a stand mic, but a clip on has to be wireless? I'm with Andrew.

Mac

Pretty much, his logic is if he is spending money on clip ons, it has to be the best and the best is wireless?

In running this latest proposal by him this morning, he reminded me that he also plays harmonica and a recorder into his vocal mic.  =)  fml.

[Mac Kerr]

Pretty much, his logic is if he is spending money on clip ons, it has to be the best and the best is wireless?

Wireless is never the best. It is what you do when you absolutely can't have a cable. A wired mic will always sound better, and have better dynamic range than the same mic wireless.

With wireless you are paying extra money, and giving up some quality, for convenience.

Mac

[g'bye, Dick Rees]

Pretty much, his logic is if he is spending money on clip ons, it has to be the best and the best is wireless?

In running this latest proposal by him this morning, he reminded me that he also plays harmonica and a recorder into his vocal mic.  =)  fml.

My sympathies to you.  Sounds like he's all demands/wants and no cooperation or understanding of what's really required.

No, wireless does not make a mic better.  And to get a wireless rig that approaches the quality of hard-wired is not cheap.....unlike the player seems to be.

For processing different sources through the same mic I'd think about a multi-band compressor.  You'll stand a better chance of getting acceptable sound out of things if you have a unit that will let you clamp down on things selectively rather than full-spectrum.......maybe......

But to me it sounds like three mics are in order:

Vocal
Instrument high
Instrument low/clip-on(?)

Knowing how to work a mic seems to be a skill lost on some multi-instrumentalists.

Good luck.

[Kyle Leonard]

I solved a similar problem by running the mic into a patch bay that allowed 3 outputs for each input (depends on how the patch bay is wired). Then I have a mixer channel dedicated to each instrument.

Kyle

[Ned Ward]

If he has four instruments and isn't changing them mid-song, why not make him get a 4-channel mixer? He can then have his 4 mics, and it's up to him to unmute the channel of what he's playing. He'll even have EQ to taste for each. Not the best option, but if you're going to make him footswitch his inputs, it may be easier with a mixer on a stand.

[brian maddox]

Pretty much, his logic is if he is spending money on clip ons, it has to be the best and the best is wireless?

In running this latest proposal by him this morning, he reminded me that he also plays harmonica and a recorder into his vocal mic.  =)  fml.

yeah, if that's his logic regarding wireless, fyl indeed... 

[Sam Zuckerman]

Dave.....

Without asking for more information.........

Have you thought of splitting one or the other of the mics into two channels  at the board and processing them as needed? 

OK.  Now I have to ask......

I'd still say do this. It allows you to control the volume and processing for each instrument and have separate monitor sends. All you need to do is hit your cues and mute the inputs not being used.
I try to avoid putting things like this in the hands of the performers, often times they are not skilled enough/have more important things to think about (like the music.) It's out jobs as techs to make it happen anyhow so what's wrong with just having a short cue sheet?

[Dave Bednarski]

I'd still say do this. It allows you to control the volume and processing for each instrument and have separate monitor sends. All you need to do is hit your cues and mute the inputs not being used.
I try to avoid putting things like this in the hands of the performers, often times they are not skilled enough/have more important things to think about (like the music.) It's out jobs as techs to make it happen anyhow so what's wrong with just having a short cue sheet?

Actually... thinking about it from what is most/least played... this approach could work (for now).

Like many bands the sets stray given the room later in the sets.  This is why we've not had tons of luck w/ que sheets.  However...

The flute & recorder are infrequently played & don't believe in any songs w/ trumpet.  Leaving that "high" mic, always up for the impromptu trumpet blast I only need to worry about hitting the small number of flute/recorder cues that can be listed independent of the set list for a given night.

It is 50/50 on the bari & tenor sax & they are played in almost every song.  The A/B switch could be reasonably used here or press him to get/use a clip-on for one and the waist level 57 for the other.

Thanks again all for the suggestions & outside input.

[eric lenasbunt]

I haven't spent much time on the SL, but in a similar situation on my O1V96 I have set up scenes where the mic has a different EQ and comp for the different horns. Doesn't help if there is a gain issue that is too great for the comp to handle. Push one button and you're done if you soundchecked well.
I have also done this with a trombone playing vocalist and it worked just fine, lots of comp on the trombone, but headache free.

[Vladimir Angelovski]

If he has four instruments and isn't changing them mid-song, why not make him get a 4-channel mixer? He can then have his 4 mics, and it's up to him to unmute the channel of what he's playing. He'll even have EQ to taste for each. Not the best option, but if you're going to make him footswitch his inputs, it may be easier with a mixer on a stand.

I thought the same thing. Something like:

http://www.soundcraft.com/products/product.aspx?pid=173

[Dave Bednarski]

Update.... Unfortunately this situation has still not improved.

We finally came to an agreement for better part of 2012 that he would use the clip-on for the bari sax, a 57 clipped midway on a mic stand for the tenor and another 57 on the same stand for the trumpet.  This has worked out well but frequently he decides to clip the clip-on to the trumpet or wander off to someone else's vocal and blast away and the whole thing goes to hell - everything clips out.

I am learning no amount of equipment will fix an uncooperative musician.

[Jordan Wolf]

...no amount of equipment will fix an uncooperative musician.

If you have a large enough amount, you can dump it all on them…

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