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Author Topic: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this  (Read 8738 times)

Brad Weber

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #10 on: January 18, 2012, 08:40:26 am »

"CAT5" is a transmission method, not a signal format, and basic CAT5 routers simply route whatever signal is there, they do not convert, scale or transcode the signal.  So with most such devices a composite video input at the source end can only be routed to a composite video output at the destination end, you can't have composite video in to component video or HDMI out.

Back to the basics, in simple terms what are the sources and destinations and what audio and video signals are compatible with them?  From what I can tell, in terms of sources you have one live feed (composite video ?), one DVD (probably component video or composite video, maybe Y/C and perhaps HDMI) and one computer (VGA/DVI-D/DVI-A/HDMI ?)  For the destinations I'm not clear if you are addressing two TVs or four since you mentioned both, but what audio and video inputs do they support?

With that information for the sources and destinations you can then start establishing what signal types you can work with.  If you are lucky then you will find one signal format that is common to everything and you can simply get a compatible router for that signal type.

If there isn't one signal format common for all sources and destinations then you can either 1) use multiple routers for the different signals and switch inputs at the displays, 2) convert some of the signals to a compatible format and then route the converted signals or c) use a router that incorporates the ability to convert between different signal types.

This is also an area where HDMI can have another impact as HDMI carries audio and video, so if you are converting to or from HDMI to another video format then you may also have to address how audio gets incorporated into or broken out of the HDMI signal.


I'm sure your intentions are good and that you would do your best, but the issues being addressed are those that should be learned in professional classes, while working for a professional AV contractor/consultant or from a mentor before trying to provide the related services, not via an online forum after you already have the work.  From experience, I see this all too likely to be a bad outcome for everyone involved.  Please do the church a service and help them get someone who is qualified in designing and installing such systems involved.
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brian maddox

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #11 on: January 18, 2012, 02:47:40 pm »

"CAT5" is a transmission method, not a signal format, and basic CAT5 routers simply route whatever signal is there, they do not convert, scale or transcode the signal.  So with most such devices a composite video input at the source end can only be routed to a composite video output at the destination end, you can't have composite video in to component video or HDMI out.

Back to the basics, in simple terms what are the sources and destinations and what audio and video signals are compatible with them?  From what I can tell, in terms of sources you have one live feed (composite video ?), one DVD (probably component video or composite video, maybe Y/C and perhaps HDMI) and one computer (VGA/DVI-D/DVI-A/HDMI ?)  For the destinations I'm not clear if you are addressing two TVs or four since you mentioned both, but what audio and video inputs do they support?

With that information for the sources and destinations you can then start establishing what signal types you can work with.  If you are lucky then you will find one signal format that is common to everything and you can simply get a compatible router for that signal type.

If there isn't one signal format common for all sources and destinations then you can either 1) use multiple routers for the different signals and switch inputs at the displays, 2) convert some of the signals to a compatible format and then route the converted signals or c) use a router that incorporates the ability to convert between different signal types.

I'm sure your intentions are good and that you would do your best, but the issues being addressed are those that should be learned in professional classes, while working for a professional AV contractor/consultant or from a mentor before trying to provide the related services, not via an online forum after you already have the work.  From experience, I see this all too likely to be a bad outcome for everyone involved.  Please do the church a service and help them get someone who is qualified in designing and installing such systems involved.

i've been watching this thread with interest, and as someone who works at a church myself, i thought i'd throw another opinion into the woks...

you say that you do the research and learn as you go.  nothing wrong with this.  i would STRONGLY encourage you to read and then Reread brad's post.  there are some fundamental questions in there that it seems like you are skipping over.  what i see happening is that you are searching the internet for a box with enough connectors on it that you recognize and hoping you can make it do the job.  you HAVE to FIRST as the fundamental questions and get rock solid answers to them.  not for our benefit, for yours.

1.  what are you trying to accomplish?  i.e. we need these 3 signals to appear on any combination of these 4 destinations and they need to be switched remotely [or whatever the answer is].

2.  what are the formats available on those sources and destinations?  not connectors.  formats.  and you MUST educate yourself on what those formats actually are and what they mean.  if you don't know this, you are dooming yourself to failure.

3.  what is the cabling and infrastructure available to me?  again, you MUST educate yourself as to what these things are and what they mean.

4.  now that i know the goal, and the limitations [formats, infrastructure, etc.] what is the best hardware solution for the job?

if you KNEW the answers to the first 3 questions, this forum would be very useful since these guys know the gear available very well.  but it seems to me that you've skipped to the last question and then are trying to see if you can make that answer work without adequate understanding of the first 3.

FWIW, for a budget of $5000, i STRONGLY suspect that i could fly to your location, install what was needed to do the job, fly home, and put a good bit of money in my pocket.  i don't say that cause i want the job.  i say that just to give you some perspective.  as a guy who works in a church, i'm pretty keen on good stewardship of God's money.  i would encourage you to be a good steward as well....
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brian maddox
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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #12 on: January 18, 2012, 02:58:02 pm »

Brian....

I believe it's called the "Socratic" method:  keep guessing until you get  close............
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Arnold B. Krueger

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #13 on: January 18, 2012, 03:24:54 pm »

Appreciate the already comments, with all do respect, I got just the response I figured I'd get and went ahead and did the research myself...
I'm a quick learner and learn from trial and error
They hired me because they know my work and I may not seem like I know much, I go out and study, research, and read until I know the answer.

So, As Brad was saying,

"""As far as what to do, maybe you can start by defining the goals in simple terms.  Is what is wanted selecting one source to to be displayed everywhere or is it selecting the source for each display independently?  Or will that be determined based on the associated cost and complexity?  This is an important determination to make, especially if you are looking at an HDMI solution."""

I'm wanting to get all my signals into a selector
and get them out to 2 LCD tvs with either HDMI, RGB, COMPOSITE, inputs
Also I want to be able to have a live feed going on one tv while having a DVD playing on the other tv. VIA one output..possible?

How about this?

http://site.hdtvsupply.com/HDTVMX0402321-2.pdf
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Brad Weber

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #14 on: January 18, 2012, 10:56:29 pm »

How about this?

http://site.hdtvsupply.com/HDTVMX0402321-2.pdf
That might work if all the sources and destinations were HDMI and physically close enough to be run as HDMI.  I had the impression that neither of those may necessarily be valid but that is why it is so important to get the appropriate information.  Just knowing the actual sources and destinations would help people determine if a simple 4x2 composite video and stereo matrix switch might be an option or if a much more expensive matrix switcher/scaler that handles multiple analog and digital formats and outputs over UTP may be required or if something between those would work.
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Roger Beck

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2012, 06:51:40 pm »

Was jumping around these forums and decided to jump into this one with a new account on here.


A quick Google search brought this up, just have to find a way to get your signals "scaled" up to a HDMI signal correct?

CE Labs HSW88C 8 x 8 HDMI Over Cat-6 Matrix Switcher
http://www.amazon.com/CE-HSW88C-Cat-6-Matrix-Switcher/dp/B002K8VY8M

Not sure if that's an easy way for you Joe?
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Joe Long

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2012, 07:26:47 pm »

Alright. Thanks again for the replies.
with all do respect to myself and you (I'm not stupid) there may be things im unfamiliar with and as far as you guys no I know nothing. Understandable.
LETS BE CLEAR NOW! :)

SETUP NOW
2 signals - Live feed (Composite)
            - DVD        (composite)

those signals run into a Radio Shack Switcher
then OUTPUT to a Intelix composite to cat 5 balun
that runs into a Intelix distribution Amp (cat5) that runs to...
4 seperate LG tv displays with Intelix baluns at each tv that are hooked into the tv via composite to svideo adapters...

so currently we can switch to channel 1 on the switcher and all the tvs will display a picture.
PROBLEM
blurry,skewed picture
for both signals live and dvd feed same type of bad picture

i've already troubleshooted the problem and took the amp, switcher ect out of the equations...its the baluns, they dont give a nice picture, and they have no adjustments on them to make
this has already been stated before too

What we WANT
to be able to have a these signals
 live feed (composite)
 dvd (composite or component) doesnt really matter
 computer (15pin/vga)
 and eventually maybe a couple more signals
going into a "switcher" (i believe its called a matrix switcher) to be able to display the live feed on one tv and then the dvd on the other 2 tvs and a computer feed on the last tv all using ONE cable run (cat5) to each tv with a receiver.

so instead of all the same signal on each tv, seperate signals displaying at the same time on a designated tv....

its by far nothing HIGH end, or GRADE A material, I know my formats and what not, I got that stuff...just lookin for some input on the products i've listed and if theyll be able to work.
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Brad Weber

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #17 on: January 20, 2012, 07:52:23 am »

Was jumping around these forums and decided to jump into this one with a new account on here.


A quick Google search brought this up, just have to find a way to get your signals "scaled" up to a HDMI signal correct?

CE Labs HSW88C 8 x 8 HDMI Over Cat-6 Matrix Switcher
http://www.amazon.com/CE-HSW88C-Cat-6-Matrix-Switcher/dp/B002K8VY8M

Not sure if that's an easy way for you Joe?
Again, that might work if all of your sources and destinations are HDMI, but it provides no scaling, transcoding, etc. if they are not.
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Brad Weber

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2012, 08:03:25 am »

Alright. Thanks again for the replies.
with all do respect to myself and you (I'm not stupid) there may be things im unfamiliar with and as far as you guys no I know nothing. Understandable.
LETS BE CLEAR NOW! :)

SETUP NOW
2 signals - Live feed (Composite)
            - DVD        (composite)

those signals run into a Radio Shack Switcher
then OUTPUT to a Intelix composite to cat 5 balun
that runs into a Intelix distribution Amp (cat5) that runs to...
4 seperate LG tv displays with Intelix baluns at each tv that are hooked into the tv via composite to svideo adapters...

so currently we can switch to channel 1 on the switcher and all the tvs will display a picture.
PROBLEM
blurry,skewed picture
for both signals live and dvd feed same type of bad picture

i've already troubleshooted the problem and took the amp, switcher ect out of the equations...its the baluns, they dont give a nice picture, and they have no adjustments on them to make
this has already been stated before too

What we WANT
to be able to have a these signals
 live feed (composite)
 dvd (composite or component) doesnt really matter
 computer (15pin/vga)
 and eventually maybe a couple more signals
going into a "switcher" (i believe its called a matrix switcher) to be able to display the live feed on one tv and then the dvd on the other 2 tvs and a computer feed on the last tv all using ONE cable run (cat5) to each tv with a receiver.

so instead of all the same signal on each tv, seperate signals displaying at the same time on a designated tv....

its by far nothing HIGH end, or GRADE A material, I know my formats and what not, I got that stuff...just lookin for some input on the products i've listed and if theyll be able to work.
Joe, with all respect, you still don't seem to get things like that the network switcher has no place in this system and that it is not just about the gear.  I apologize to your client and I hope it turns out well for you and your Client, but I am not going invest any more of my time in this.
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David M. Chitty

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Re: opinions and thoughts on how you would do this
« Reply #19 on: June 21, 2012, 04:56:40 pm »

Are you wanting to run just one signal cable to each TV? Or are you planning to run a Composite Video and a VGA?
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