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Author Topic: Guitar Players Levels  (Read 18279 times)

Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #20 on: December 16, 2011, 05:15:12 pm »

In this case he would have to have two amps to have a clean and dirty voice at the same volume.

I said that before, this is done by many guitarists and sounds amazing...

I can tell you now you won't hear much difference in volume between drive and clean since who in their right mind writes a song that is clean and heavy over-driven in one song?

PS: new multi channel amps have separate power amps for that so theoretically they are not one amp much like two channels on a desk contain two preamps.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 05:17:01 pm by Jean-Pierre Coetzee »
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Mark Long

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #21 on: December 16, 2011, 05:25:01 pm »

I can tell you now you won't hear much difference in volume between drive and clean since who in their right mind writes a song that is clean and heavy over-driven in one song?
Seriously? Many songs build from clean/soft to heavy or overdriven. Bottom line is that any guitarist, keyboardist, drummer, whatever that doesn't manage their volume and dynamics in the best interest of the band and the song is a self absorbed dweeb. And yes, I'm a guitar player...
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Steve Hurt

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #22 on: December 16, 2011, 07:20:27 pm »

who in their right mind writes a song that is clean and heavy over-driven in one song?

90% of the guitarists that I respect.
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Gene Lollis

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #23 on: December 16, 2011, 07:49:43 pm »

I'd hate to have to mix a guitar player who had no way of controlling his guitar voice other than volume. In this case he would have to have two amps to have a clean and dirty voice at the same volume. Vintage is great to a point, but I'm glad we've progressed beyond a single channel amp with no master gain.

As a former guitar player (I am still recovering) I can speak from experience and say truthfully that the best combination of tone and stage volume For most guitarists will usually come from a "low" wattage tube amp. I have seen some amazing guitarists get jaw-dropping tones, clean and dirty while maintaining consistent volume by mostly knowing their gear and LISTENING! Great tone is in the hands, the gear needs to accomodate the player's ability and help, not hurt the process of making the song. Too many people are about gear alone, they show up, turn up and believe that the crowd gives a crap about their freakin Marshall or 5 Les Pauls. As for running sound and dealing with it, we can only hope to control it and take it a gig at a time.
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Bob Charest

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #24 on: December 16, 2011, 11:31:57 pm »

... I have seen some amazing guitarists get jaw-dropping tones, clean and dirty while maintaining consistent volume by mostly knowing their gear and LISTENING! ...

Can I get an amen?  :)
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David Parker

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #25 on: December 16, 2011, 11:51:07 pm »

Can I get an amen?  :)

me too. I've worked with some really great artists that had the full package. And many wannabees that had all the riffs but no control of their tone and volume.
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #26 on: December 16, 2011, 11:59:57 pm »

I said that before, this is done by many guitarists and sounds amazing...

I can tell you now you won't hear much difference in volume between drive and clean since who in their right mind writes a song that is clean and heavy over-driven in one song?

PS: new multi channel amps have separate power amps for that so theoretically they are not one amp much like two channels on a desk contain two preamps.

Jean-Pierre,
 
I don't know a whole lot about the subject but I think that perhaps 99% of the multi channel guitar amplifiers produced today rely on multiple pre amplifiers with multiple gain stages utilizing a single and common power section.
 
I also believe you're mistaken when you state that a 50 watt tube amplifier is over kill for any gig.
 
I also state that Ned Ward is correct in that many players rely on three (3) basic tones, clean, grind or light distortion, and a lead tone. The difference between the grind and clean tones is seldom volume, but just as stated, clean or grind. The use of these tones will depend on the song being played. A lead tone will usually be about 6-10db louder than either the clean tone or grind.
 
I could be wrong though being my knowledge is limited.  ;)
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #27 on: December 17, 2011, 06:09:01 am »


Jean-Pierre,
 
I don't know a whole lot about the subject but I think that perhaps 99% of the multi channel guitar amplifiers produced today rely on multiple pre amplifiers with multiple gain stages utilizing a single and common power section.
 
I also believe you're mistaken when you state that a 50 watt tube amplifier is over kill for any gig.
 
I also state that Ned Ward is correct in that many players rely on three (3) basic tones, clean, grind or light distortion, and a lead tone. The difference between the grind and clean tones is seldom volume, but just as stated, clean or grind. The use of these tones will depend on the song being played. A lead tone will usually be about 6-10db louder than either the clean tone or grind.
 
I could be wrong though being my knowledge is limited.  ;)

Quote
2. Channel A Pre-Amp Gain Control
Sets the gain level for channel A. Lower settings give clean sounds - higher settings for medium drive and
crunch rhythm.
3. Channel B Lead Gain Control
Sets the gain level for boosted Channel B. Lower settings give slight overdrive - higher settings for maximum
drive and sustain.

Off of mashall JCM 900 dual reverb manual... This specific amp happens to have master volume so it can be controlled older amps didn't. I may be wrong about the power amps but it makes no sense having only one power amp, that is something Ned May be able to tell me. I made my position clear on what I am talking about.

Apologies if you've already read this. I'd have to assume that modern amps with master volume uses pre-amp valve overdrive and not power amp but does not change my opinion that clean should be softer than loud, therefore multi-channel amps may have different pre-amps and use a common power amp but once again driving the level to 11 will give you power amp drive and will result in you needing to turn down you volume to get clean...
« Last Edit: December 17, 2011, 06:34:00 am by Jean-Pierre Coetzee »
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #28 on: December 17, 2011, 06:50:43 am »

I will have to agree that turning the amp volume to full output will of course lead to distortion in both the preamp and power sections of the amplifier. Combine that with a speaker or speakers that won't handle that full output and Jimi comes alive.

I think that many Fender amps from the late 60's and early 70's had a master volume control. I also think I remember many people not liking that feature, but could again be wrong. Perhaps Ned will chime in and confirm.
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BOSTON STRONG........
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2011, 08:15:39 am »

I will have to agree that turning the amp volume to full output will of course lead to distortion in both the preamp and power sections of the amplifier. Combine that with a speaker or speakers that won't handle that full output and Jimi comes alive.

I think that many Fender amps from the late 60's and early 70's had a master volume control. I also think I remember many people not liking that feature, but could again be wrong. Perhaps Ned will chime in and confirm.

My claim on the clean vs drive level was opinion and if anything I owe Ned an apology for going against him since he is right about the levels being equal since it's up to taste. I know from experience many people don't like the master volume control, I'm a vox and marshall man myself.
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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #29 on: December 17, 2011, 08:15:39 am »


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