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Author Topic: Guitar Players Levels  (Read 18278 times)

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #10 on: December 16, 2011, 01:21:57 pm »

why is it guitar players can't tell their volume changes drastically when they switch channels or change effects? Most of the guitar players I've worked with over the years have this problem. Keyboard players are worse. Every patch has a different volume. It seems like it would be evident to them. If they switch to a louder setting, I can tell and turn them down, but if they switch to a lower volume setting, sometimes I don't notice and they disappear in the mix.

This should all be taken care of during a line check/sound check.  You need to ask to hear the different sounds the guitar player has and have him/her adjust them to be usable in your mix.
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #11 on: December 16, 2011, 01:32:41 pm »

if they have sound check, have them check their clean, crunch and lead sounds. Clean and crunch should be the same level and yes, you can do this with pedals and such. Lead should be set at a level agreed to by you and them that's thicker/louder, but not deafening.

Remind them that their levels for their 3 different sounds will vary by venue and that's what the knobs on their amps and pedals are fore -- they're not set and forget. Otherwise they'd be recessed into the pedals with set screws...

Clean and crunch should NOT be the same level and clean should be softer. Go do a little research about guitar amplifiers then come back. Start at valve since that is the sound every guitarist is trying to get.
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Sam Zuckerman

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #12 on: December 16, 2011, 02:26:00 pm »

I work with a lot of college bands and to them louder is always better; however louder is not always constant. There are a couple bands I work with that know their levels and the levels of the other members, with them if I hear something drop out of the mix I know that it's because that's how they want it (and it sounds good.)

I usually keep a compressor patched in on my guitar channels. Not becuase I assume that all guitarists don't know how to turn a knob but because I often don't get a sound check and have no idea what levels they will be at. After the first song is usually when I can make a good compressor setting then have a good show with consistent levels.
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Jay Barracato

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2011, 02:41:12 pm »

Clean and crunch should NOT be the same level and clean should be softer. Go do a little research about guitar amplifiers then come back. Start at valve since that is the sound every guitarist is trying to get.

Something tells me that Ned doesn't really need to do all that much research about tone, amps and guitars.
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Jay Barracato

Clint Miller

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2011, 03:02:57 pm »

why is it guitar players can't tell their volume changes drastically when they switch channels or change effects? Most of the guitar players I've worked with over the years have this problem. Keyboard players are worse. Every patch has a different volume. It seems like it would be evident to them. If they switch to a louder setting, I can tell and turn them down, but if they switch to a lower volume setting, sometimes I don't notice and they disappear in the mix.

I think its worse now with the advent of digital processors...  some guys have meticulously adjusted their presets so their levels are where they need to be.  I especially notice this with one of the tribute bands that I run for.

I have more of a problem with guys sandbagging their levels so they end up so loud that I shut them out of the main mix!  I'll have club owners come over and ask me to turn down and I'll show that the guitars are muted in the main mix.  I hate that because it not only makes them sound bad, but it makes me look incompetent.

I try to get them to turn down and let me control it in their monitors, but it turns into a volume war with other members of the band.

The sheilds do help, but there's nothing you can do if the band members simply disregard everything you say.  If they are playing low enough that you can still control their volume, use hard limiters... You'll hate the sound, but it will be better than getting slammed and then losing them from the mix.
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Ned Ward

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #15 on: December 16, 2011, 03:04:05 pm »

Jean-Pierre, search my posts; I think you'll find I know far more about valve amps than you can start to spew out and I'm still learning from people on this forum. Your reply to my post makes little sense.

In my opinion, if you're playing, the clean and crunch/dirty level for rhythm should be about the same. If not, when the guitar player switches songs or channels, you get unexpected jumps in level. That sounds to me like the same nightmare of the keyboard player with different patches.

If you enjoy having multiple levels for the guitars you're mixing every time they add overdrive or change amp channels, by all means, but I try to limit myself to 1 level for rhythm, regardless of clean/dirty, and 1 level for lead.

Thanks Jay for your reply.
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Adam Wh3tham

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #16 on: December 16, 2011, 04:02:14 pm »

Clean and crunch should NOT be the same level and clean should be softer. Go do a little research about guitar amplifiers then come back. Start at valve since that is the sound every guitarist is trying to get.

This is one of those amazing Foot in Mouth Post that comes along every once in a while when someone doesn't know who they are talking to...

I'd find it way more amusing if he did this to Bob L.  8)
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David Parker

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #17 on: December 16, 2011, 04:30:12 pm »


 but I try to limit myself to 1 level for rhythm, regardless of clean/dirty, and 1 level for lead.

Thanks Jay for your reply.

exactly. when the guitar player gets that right, it makes for an easy night for the sound man! And the other band members onstage.
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Jean-Pierre Coetzee

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #18 on: December 16, 2011, 04:49:12 pm »

Jean-Pierre, search my posts; I think you'll find I know far more about valve amps than you can start to spew out and I'm still learning from people on this forum. Your reply to my post makes little sense.

In my opinion, if you're playing, the clean and crunch/dirty level for rhythm should be about the same. If not, when the guitar player switches songs or channels, you get unexpected jumps in level. That sounds to me like the same nightmare of the keyboard player with different patches.

If you enjoy having multiple levels for the guitars you're mixing every time they add overdrive or change amp channels, by all means, but I try to limit myself to 1 level for rhythm, regardless of clean/dirty, and 1 level for lead.

Thanks Jay for your reply.

Assuming channels is nice enough but once again I have to mention that true vintage(because that is what we all want) has no channels. It's drive loud or clean soft again I tell you go do a little research.

I don't care who someone is and what their reputation is if I find their statement wrong it remains wrong. Vintage valve is what I'm referring to not modern since I am talking about guitarist wishing to emulate a sound they know. Vintage valve has one setting, loud. Turn down the volume to get clean since drive comes from literally over-driving the valves in the power amp... I wasn't clear what I was talking about but in the end it remains true, clean should be softer than drive in all senses of tone. Now if you wish to point me to anything(that isn't channels) that negates that logic please link away.
« Last Edit: December 16, 2011, 04:50:58 pm by Jean-Pierre Coetzee »
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"If you want "loud", then run a piece of sheet metal through a table saw------

If you want "watts"-then plug in a toaster"
- Ivan Beaver

David Parker

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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2011, 04:58:33 pm »

[quote ]
 Vintage valve has one setting, loud. Turn down the volume to get clean since drive comes from literally over-driving the valves in the power amp...
[/quote]

I'd hate to have to mix a guitar player who had no way of controlling his guitar voice other than volume. In this case he would have to have two amps to have a clean and dirty voice at the same volume. Vintage is great to a point, but I'm glad we've progressed beyond a single channel amp with no master gain.
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Re: Guitar Players Levels
« Reply #19 on: December 16, 2011, 04:58:33 pm »


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