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Author Topic: The "Fri" guy's TOUR SUB (Randy Frierson)  (Read 7835 times)

Nathan Schwarzkopf

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The "Fri" guy's TOUR SUB (Randy Frierson)
« on: December 04, 2011, 11:44:21 am »

Hello all

Its been awhile since I have posted anything.  I ran across something the other day that I figured I would let people know about....


I did a gig in FT. Lauderdale the other day that was all electronic music.  We had a large supplemental rental to our inventory due to the shape of the venue.  I was carrying Milo and 700hp's so I asked the production manager for 12 more 700's and what I got was 12 "tour subs".  I can say I wasnt very happy upon the onset just cuz I got something I have never heard of against a proven performer(not to mention more work to get the rig lined up).  Once I got it all up and runnin I was pretty impressed.   Once show time came I was real impressed these thing hit you like a F---in sledge hammer and had a good amount of head room.  It was ideal for the application. There was an amazing amount of output for a dual 18 box.

The construction looked like a square Nexo S2.  They were powered and road in on carts 3 high and thats how I deployed them.

The Review

I have found low end is one of those tricky things and is even more opinionated in what is being reproduced than almost anything else in sound...if thats possible.  So in comparison to a 700hp(which i hold in pretty high regard)....... they have amazing amount of output.  They will out run any sub I have run into so far.  In Freq response I thought they were standard.  I crossed them at 63, I didnt do any sweeps but it sounded like a standard 30 something to whatever box.  I didnt listen for how flat they were.  The sound was a touch dirty, I feel the 700 is a very clean smooth sub and this was definitely rougher with more bite.  When the audience filled the area in the distortion was not noticeable.  I would use them again especially for dance crap. 

I am sure randy or one of his guys can fill in here.

All in all I was pretty impressed.  If someone else has run into these things I would be interested to hear what you think.

I found more info on the facebook page than on there website?....

www.facebook.com/pages/Power-Pod-Audio

Nathan
 

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Adam Shay

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Re: The "Fri" guy's TOUR SUB (Randy Frierson)
« Reply #1 on: December 07, 2011, 02:14:10 am »

they have amazing amount of output.  They will out run any sub I have run into so far.  In Freq response I thought they were standard. ...  I didnt listen for how flat they were.  The sound was a touch dirty, I feel the 700 is a very clean smooth sub and this was definitely rougher with more bite.  ...
I am sure randy or one of his guys can fill in here.

Nathan

Hi Nathan and other readers...
I was the tech sent out with this system, and I also was key in the later developmental stages of the product as it is now.  These boxes have dual B&C 18" Neodymium magnet drivers, and are powered by a Powerpod Audio dual 2400wrms per channel amplifier, with built-in DSP processing.  The natural box has a slow roll-off right around 30hz, and due to the 6th order bandpass design they are not very flat, but with the dsp processing, a single box is +0/-2db from 30hz to 120hz, with a slow rolloff from 120hz to 160hz (I set them that way so they will mate well with any box including smaller-format line arrays and trap cab's, for most applications we will use external processing to cross them anywhere between 50 and 80hz).  An array of 6 (2 high, 3 wide) has been measured to yield a usable response down to 25hz.  On the upper range they are not as tight as I would like, which I believe may explain the "dirty" comment Nathan mentioned above, and I have some ideas which may help improve on this issue in the future.  Since we stock Meyer cabinets, I wanted to try to make them as similar to a meyer as I can, so using the processing they have been voiced to sound similar to the 700hp (and at the gig during setup we swapped between the toursubs and the 700hp and I had a hard time discerning the difference at low to mid volume!). They are the same exact gain as a 700hp, and the phase curve looks exactly like a 600hp (I used 600hp so that we could set up our tourtraps to wire directly to a 600hp or a toursub and they line up phase-wise without external processing). Due to the similarity, we could use Meyer Mapp Online Pro to give a pretty close estimation of how they will behave when arrayed across a stage, and are mixed with other meyer products. Due to the fact that they are not front firing "omni" boxes (they are slightly directional boxes, acting similar to a eaw sb1000), mapp's results are slightly skewed from real-life observations with this product, but as long as we try not to flip them around and do front/rear firing directional arrays, we can line them up across a stage and see, for the most part, how they will interact with each other before we are at the gig, and it is pretty accurate. The big difference is the headroom:   Each of these Toursubs will keep getting louder and louder, until it gets to roughly 148db peak (@1 meter)!!! When you do reach the end, they dont distort, they just stop getting any louder! (limiters described below)

The amplifier's power has been matched pretty closely to the driver manufacturer's published specs, and they have clippers built in to them, so using the dsp I have implemented limiters (using medium attack/release times) to hold the average signal level right before the amp clips.  During very loud, dynamic passages, the amp's clip lights can flash, but the amps will never be pushed into hard clipping. The system works VERY well with these settings, as they have had the crap beaten out of them in clubs and hip-hop shows, and I have never had to think about "am I hitting them too hard?", During testing with tones I can make the limiters audibly hold the level back, but during shows I have never had the need to find the end (I will see an occasional flash during VERY loud shows)! At the show mentioned above at Ft Lauderdale, I dont think we ever flashed a clip light all night; however we did need to turn down the some of the other subs by a few decibels during tuning, and then a few more db's during the show.

During deployment (during shows) I try to use these subs spread evenly across the stage and then make a sub arc.  I used to prefer making large stacks of subs on the sides simply because more subs couple giving more power to the bulk of the audience, even though theres lobes causing lack of bass in certain areas.  I used to not like sub arcs very much because even though you have a much smoother spread of low end across the audience without power alleys and lobing, the limitation is lack of coupling of your subs to each location, for instance if you have 2-stack high subs going across the stage your never really benefitting from more than 4 subs (farther subs are cancelling with each other due to the distances). Many stages cant afford more than 2 stack high or else they block the front edge of the stage, so only the larger stages can handle 3 or more high.  With the power that a 2-stack of most subs produce, they barely produce energy to move ALOT of air more than a few feet in front of them.  With the Toursubs, I can set 2 of them up stacked, and stand 20 feet away, and turn them up to the point that they are blurring my vision, with no peak lights even flashing! When I make a line of these across the stage and arc delay them out, I get the feeling of true sub power, with ground shaking, air-compressing, stomach pounding bass all across the audience! In the past, I have done shows where we needed to keep the front of the stage clear, and I did 3 subs per side, or more, but I never made one large sub array of 3stack tall by 4 stack wide, like we did in Ft Lauderdale a couple of weekends ago.  I was originally told to push them all together for full coupling to the center, but that was just crazy!!! I know what 2 feel like, and what 3 feel like, but 12 toursubs tightpacked???  We ended up keeping the center 2 stacks together and spreading out the other 2 stacks of three by roughly 8 feet and two stacks of 3x 700's out to each side of the toursubs (4 stacks total of each style of cabinet) all evenly spaced.  When everything was fired up, before any tuning was done, I stood roughly 50+ feet from the stage, center stage, and turned it up to the point that it was actually making me feel sick to my stomach, it was so intense!  After the arc delays were all dialed in and everything was brought down to show volume it was smooth and normal throughout the whole show site, with a slight bump in the center of the audience (intentionally, as per powers that be!).  I did find a "rant" on a complaints website that someone complained about the loud music and the vibrations shaking their cabinets in their house, from 5+ blocks away!!! so I guess the subs did their job! (see http://www.getpayback.com/concerts-events/dancegiving-music-festival/ for the complaint!) I guess we can't always keep EVERYONE happy!
Note my intention is for informational purposes, not advertisement, especially considering this subwoofer being discussed is not a product for sale at this time to the general marketplace!  Aside from working for the "manufacturer", I am also a live sound engineer going out and teching and mixing on these subs on a regular basis, so I think that allows me the right to critique and provide information on the product!
« Last Edit: December 08, 2011, 12:08:06 pm by Adam Shay »
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Justin Reaves

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Re: The "Fri" guy's TOUR SUB (Randy Frierson)
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2012, 02:46:33 pm »

lol at the complaint
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Rory Buszka

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Re: The "Fri" guy's TOUR SUB (Randy Frierson)
« Reply #3 on: September 01, 2012, 08:59:12 pm »

We need pics!
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Douglas R. Allen

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Randy Frierson

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Re: The "Fri" guy's TOUR SUB (Randy Frierson)
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 11:19:47 pm »

they are similar but differant, V2 has differant ports and the rear chamber is much differant...but similar

author=Douglas R. Allen link=topic=134984.msg1299611#msg1299611 date=1347875801]
I believe they are the same as these.

http://www.eighteensound.com/staticContent/applications/kits/18Sound_kit18_dual.pdf

Douglas R. Allen
[/quote]
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Re: The "Fri" guy's TOUR SUB (Randy Frierson)
« Reply #5 on: December 08, 2012, 11:19:47 pm »


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