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Author Topic: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive  (Read 19291 times)

g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #20 on: November 30, 2011, 04:18:05 pm »

Well that is a dismal outlook!

As a business, yes......it is dismal and can be downright brutal.  But many of us still do it.  There are two aspects to it:  sound and business.  Be careful to pay close attention to both.

Otherwise it seems like you've made up your mind and are looking for validation or an irrefutable reason to do otherwise.  Nothing wrong with that.  But don't think for a minute that artistic concerns trump bottom line in this business.  That's just not the way it is.
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Samuel Rees

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #21 on: November 30, 2011, 06:41:54 pm »

As a business, yes......it is dismal and can be downright brutal.  But many of us still do it.  There are two aspects to it:  sound and business.  Be careful to pay close attention to both.

Otherwise it seems like you've made up your mind and are looking for validation or an irrefutable reason to do otherwise.  Nothing wrong with that.  But don't think for a minute that artistic concerns trump bottom line in this business.  That's just not the way it is.

Well damn... maybe you all have convinced me then. I guess if I got the Presonus I could always sell it and get something else later if it played out that way. If not, I supposed I've save a few G's. Craigslist / eBay market for the SL is big.

Thanks for all the help guys.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #22 on: November 30, 2011, 08:09:27 pm »

Well damn... maybe you all have convinced me then. I guess if I got the Presonus I could always sell it and get something else later if it played out that way. If not, I supposed I've save a few G's. Craigslist / eBay market for the SL is big.

Thanks for all the help guys.

A few quick questions on a forum can yield some helpful results.  Sticking with it long enough to explore and understand all the ramifications will also help.  As has been noted, there are quite a few considerations beyond the capabilities and UI of the desk.  Added expenses such as a good road case (not cheap), additional interface/connections etc can break an otherwise good deal.  And then there's the "business bogeyman".......

Situations vary.  There are all sorts of other questions I'd ask myself before laying out a good chunk of change for a premium piece of gear.  Length of payback, for one thing.  I do understand the advantage of buying something which will allow you to educate yourself and increase your ability to work on digital desks.  That's where it's going and the better your overall understanding of the workflow, the better off you'll be.

But there's also that big cash outlay.  If the Presonus 24 channel desk will allow you to do IEM's, recording and get the job done with some money in your pocket, then by all means, pick one up, use it happily and let it pay for the "big brute" a couple of years down the line.  You'll always have use for a second line desk when you get the big one.

I can't help but think about the other things like the house gear you're apparently dealing with.  You could lay out the bucks for the big console and have it severely limited by the quality and condition of the house snake, for example.  In that sense it seems less apt to lay out the big money now.

Another thing I'd ask is this:  What is your relationship with the places you're working now?  Do you have written contracts or is this on a handshake basis?  For $10K, I'd definitely want to know that I have a formal, written understanding between parties.  And if this is the case, I'd want to have a back-up console ready so I can deliver the goods.

I hope you get the console you want.  And I hope it balances out with the console that you need, that will forward your career and pay the bills.

 
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Justice C. Bigler

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #23 on: November 30, 2011, 08:17:56 pm »

An LS9-32 and a pair of MY16-AUD Dante cards will run you right at $8,000. Turn the LS9-32 into an ASIO or Core Audio device using the Dante Virtual Sound Card and you can record straight into any multitrack DAW software system via standard Cat5 cables and a gigabit router. I think you will find that the LS9 is more console than the Si Compact 24, and certainly more than the Studio Live.
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Dan Johnson

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #24 on: November 30, 2011, 09:33:24 pm »

Thanks Chris, I appreciate the perspective. I see what you mean about the input gear vs output pay, but how would you value the educational aspect? Maybe that sounds silly, but I feel like there is some relationship there. For example, as a young engineer I still have a lot to learn. When I am working a console with "room to grow", I feel like I learn so much.
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I feel like a touring class digital console would give me superior experience and room to grow. Now don't get me wrong - I understand that gear isn't everything. Ultimately, it is about the end result - I have seen guys make shows more beautiful than I ever have on old consoles. But, I still feel like the abillity to operate and/or own big digital consoles is a commodity in of itself.
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Do you guys have any thoughts on the educational / experience value of gear?

I feel like working on the less capable gear might be a better learning experience for some people.  Yes, it's nice to have the additional tools of a nicer console at your disposal but at the same time, you don't have to work as hard to get a good result which may actually hinder your development.  I've spent 7 years or so working with a Yamaha Club Series speaker system and an A&H GL2200 console with very little dynamics available.  I had to make the most of what was available to me as the gear was not mine and I didn't have money to invest into it anyway.  I've come a very long way over the years as I was always finding ways to squeeze a little bit more out of the system.

Reading this forum and other educational literature as well as trying new things and learning from those experiences has been way more valuable to my development than having an $8000 console.  I HAD to work harder and learn new things to get the results that a better console might have made easier.  Don't get me wrong, if I had the chance I would have gotten a digital board for a number of reasons.  It can make a lot of things easier than what I have now and let me do some finer tuning mix-wise than what I can do now.  However, I really value the learning experience of working with a less than ideal system to achieve really good results.
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Rob Spence

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2011, 12:22:50 am »

An LS9-32 and a pair of MY16-AUD Dante cards will run you right at $8,000. Turn the LS9-32 into an ASIO or Core Audio device using the Dante Virtual Sound Card and you can record straight into any multitrack DAW software system via standard Cat5 cables and a gigabit router. I think you will find that the LS9 is more console than the Si Compact 24, and certainly more than the Studio Live.

+1

You could buy a used LS9-32 and a case and the Dante cards and a MacBook Pro for under $8k. Sell it in a few years and get what ever is hot then.

I agree with the above that the LS9 is a very capable console for the money. Would I like a better desk? Sure, but I can't afford it. The LS9 has enabled me to do all sorts of gigs that would be a challenge on an SL24 or an analog desk.
Oh, and I do own a 01v96 which goes out often for gigs it is suitable for.
I bought mine used (both desks actually) and that saved me thousands.

I have the Dante set up with a MacBook Pro and easily record 24-32 tracks with only a couple of ethernet cables to plug in.
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Samuel Rees

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<$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #26 on: December 07, 2011, 03:39:11 pm »

Hello all, thought I'd bring back an update and ask another question. Just as I had decided on the presonus, I've been offered what seems like a great deal on a SiC 24. I'm a little concerned about it though I could use your alls advice.

An eBay seller, top rated with excellent feedback, is offering me $5764 for a new one in box full warrenty free shipping. Just me via PM; they are an authorized seller so they only listed it at list price. I was inquiring about a demo one from them for that price (always just playing the field) and they said they had one for that price and I was becoming interested. Then they said sorry we actually sold it, but we will honor our deal and give you a new one full warrenty free shipping for $5764.

This sounds, awesome. But, by definition things that sound this awesome make me skeptical. If they are top rated seller with excellent feedback and use paypall, does that equate to legit? I do not use ebay frequently and never have for big purchases, so I don't feel like I have a "gut" on ebay matters.

Thoughts?
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TJ (Tom) Cornish

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #27 on: December 07, 2011, 03:46:39 pm »

Hello all, thought I'd bring back an update and ask another question. Just as I had decided on the presonus, I've been offered what seems like a great deal on a SiC 24. I'm a little concerned about it though I could use your alls advice.

An eBay seller, top rated with excellent feedback, is offering me $5764 for a new one in box full warrenty free shipping. Just me via PM; they are an authorized seller so they only listed it at list price. I was inquiring about a demo one from them for that price (always just playing the field) and they said they had one for that price and I was becoming interested. Then they said sorry we actually sold it, but we will honor our deal and give you a new one full warrenty free shipping for $5764.

This sounds, awesome. But, by definition things that sound this awesome make me skeptical. If they are top rated seller with excellent feedback and use paypall, does that equate to legit? I do not use ebay frequently and never have for big purchases, so I don't feel like I have a "gut" on ebay matters.

Thoughts?
If it's a good enough deal, you can always offer to pick it up and pay for it upon inspection/delivery.  A plane ticket may be cheap insurance.
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Samuel Rees

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<$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #28 on: December 07, 2011, 03:52:19 pm »

Hmm WI and Washington DC are more than a few miles away. Washington Music is offering me $6900 so I think traveling by any method would sort of undo the deal.

Any other thoughts? Is there anything I can do to secure the purchase? I don't know much about ebay fraud policy, shipping insurance or anything, some insight would be appreciated.
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g'bye, Dick Rees

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Re: <$10K Digital Mixer Choices - Compact SI, Studiolive
« Reply #29 on: December 07, 2011, 04:17:20 pm »

Hmm WI and Washington DC are more than a few miles away. Washington Music is offering me $6900 so I think traveling by any method would sort of undo the deal.

Any other thoughts? Is there anything I can do to secure the purchase? I don't know much about ebay fraud policy, shipping insurance or anything, some insight would be appreciated.

An escrow service such as Escrow.com has always been good for me.  It's a sure sign that something's fishy if they won't do an escrow deal.  You show them the money, they send the product for approval.  The most you can lose is shipping.
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