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Author Topic: Dual 21 inch subs  (Read 25072 times)

Chad Cain

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Dual 21 inch subs
« on: November 18, 2011, 12:56:37 pm »

Hi guys, I'm new here. Looking to build my own dual 21 inch subwoofer cabinets. I plan to start a sound company in the near future and i'm going big from the start. The ones I've seen on the market are way too much for my pocket and I've seen sound systems owners who have built there own dual 21 inch subs and they perform like any Danley th-221 or eaw sb2001. I  cant seem to find any plans online. I plan to use B&C 21 inch drivers. Some help in finding a good plan with proper speaker placement and cabinet tuning would be appreciated.
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Douglas R. Allen

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2011, 06:58:45 pm »

Hi guys, I'm new here. Looking to build my own dual 21 inch subwoofer cabinets. I plan to start a sound company in the near future and i'm going big from the start. The ones I've seen on the market are way too much for my pocket and I've seen sound systems owners who have built there own dual 21 inch subs and they perform like any Danley th-221 or eaw sb2001. I  cant seem to find any plans online. I plan to use B&C 21 inch drivers. Some help in finding a good plan with proper speaker placement and cabinet tuning would be appreciated.

Single 21s may be easier to lug. Something like these?

http://www.freespeakerplans.com/cubo-sub.html

I hate to say it but if your just starting out I'd go with the popular and easy to find used 18s out there. Building a box for a 21" and not get it quite right will make it all for nothing.

Douglas R. Allen
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs-So many questions-as usual
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2011, 07:17:40 pm »

Hi guys, I'm new here. Looking to build my own dual 21 inch subwoofer cabinets. I plan to start a sound company in the near future and i'm going big from the start. The ones I've seen on the market are way too much for my pocket and I've seen sound systems owners who have built there own dual 21 inch subs and they perform like any Danley th-221 or eaw sb2001. I  cant seem to find any plans online. I plan to use B&C 21 inch drivers. Some help in finding a good plan with proper speaker placement and cabinet tuning would be appreciated.
If you don't have a design already-how do you know that B&C 21" drivers are the right ones for whatever design  you want?

Why do you think 21" drivers will give you the performance you are looking for?

have you defined that performance?  ie how low do you need to go?  How high do you need togo (ie what are your full range cabinets and how low do they go?)-what type of music-how loud do you need to go?  what size cabinets can you easily transport?  Are you going to fly or ground stack them?

There are a lot of question that need answers, other than a design for a 21" driver.

Start by defining the needs-and that will lead you towards a proper design (using whatever size drivers) that will work best for you.
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Jeff Bankston

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2011, 11:42:58 pm »

check out the 18" FaitalPro 18XL1600
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Chad Cain

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs-So many questions-as usual
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2011, 10:12:58 am »

If you don't have a design already-how do you know that B&C 21" drivers are the right ones for whatever design  you want?

Why do you think 21" drivers will give you the performance you are looking for?

have you defined that performance?  ie how low do you need to go?  How high do you need togo (ie what are your full range cabinets and how low do they go?)-what type of music-how loud do you need to go?  what size cabinets can you easily transport?  Are you going to fly or ground stack them?

There are a lot of question that need answers, other than a design for a 21" driver.

Start by defining the needs-and that will lead you towards a proper design (using whatever size drivers) that will work best for you.

Thanks for your reply...I'm really new to this and appreciate the help and advice. I live in Jamaica, so I would be doing mostly reggae and dancehall music and gospel events where I'd need extreme low end. I want to be competitive in the market from the get go as the large sound companies out here have dual 21 inch subs. I went to a show a few days back with about 6000 people and the PA company had 4 dual 21 inch subs per side for FOH with 8 jbl vertec vt4888 per side. The subs were custom built with B&C 21 inch drivers in them. They weren't too big. Didn't ask how much they weighed though. They low end was AMAZING!!!! You could feel the kick drums from anywhere on at venue. They used lab gruppen amplification with lake processing.

I'm not sure what type mid/hi boxes i'll use as yet but they need to be able to go loud and real loud and I need. I don't intend to buy everything at once but I really love music and wanted a live sound reinforcement from ever since I could say the words, so I'll buy little by little as the money comes. As it regards flying/ground stacking, subs will never be flown. Only line array speakers will be flown if i acquire any.
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Bill Hornibrook

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2011, 12:26:34 pm »

I put together a couple of boxes using the design suggestions off the B&C website. I would not have done this project except that I got the drivers (B&C 21SW152s) for little more than half what they cost today, and I have the ability to put the cabs together myself here at my shop so they didn't cost too much.

These drivers are inefficient in a simple bass reflex box and really require a much more sophisticated and complex design to reach full potential. Nonetheless I'm happy with them whenever I'm doing DJ work playing contemporary tracks in smallish rooms. There are times when it feels like the floor is literally dropping out of the place.

Unless you are providing sound for EDM with substantial amounts of sub-40hz it would make more sense to go with 18s unless you literally have money to burn. The event you went to had - what - 16 21" B&C drivers? You're talking about a lot of money there.
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Iain.Macdonald

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2011, 12:45:32 pm »

Hi guys, I'm new here. Looking to build my own dual 21 inch subwoofer cabinets. I plan to start a sound company in the near future and i'm going big from the start. The ones I've seen on the market are way too much for my pocket and I've seen sound systems owners who have built there own dual 21 inch subs and they perform like any Danley th-221 or eaw sb2001. I  cant seem to find any plans online. I plan to use B&C 21 inch drivers. Some help in finding a good plan with proper speaker placement and cabinet tuning would be appreciated.

How about something like the picture below, which uses Lab Subs.

Iain.
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Chad Cain

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2011, 07:17:06 pm »

I put together a couple of boxes using the design suggestions off the B&C website. I would not have done this project except that I got the drivers (B&C 21SW152s) for little more than half what they cost today, and I have the ability to put the cabs together myself here at my shop so they didn't cost too much.

These drivers are inefficient in a simple bass reflex box and really require a much more sophisticated and complex design to reach full potential. Nonetheless I'm happy with them whenever I'm doing DJ work playing contemporary tracks in smallish rooms. There are times when it feels like the floor is literally dropping out of the place.

Unless you are providing sound for EDM with substantial amounts of sub-40hz it would make more sense to go with 18s unless you literally have money to burn. The event you went to had - what - 16 21" B&C drivers? You're talking about a lot of money there.

Thanks for your reply. Yes they had 16 21 inch B&C drivers. That was what they chose to take out for the show. They can go up to 8 subs per side which equates to 16 drivers per side. They are a large company so they can afford it. As I said before, I wouldn't buy everything at once. I'm just starting so I'd start small. However for the type of shows I want to do, I require alot of low end and I understand that going with 18's would be cheaper and the weight advantages would be better but I would need too many cabs to get the low end I require. I went to show recently and they have 16 eaw sb1000 subs per side powered by macrotech amplifiers and in my opinion, although they sounded good, the low end output from them came nowhere close to the 4 dual 21 inch subs per side at the other show I went to. So I had just made up my mind to go dual 21 inch from the start.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #8 on: November 23, 2011, 06:46:25 pm »

Thanks for your reply. Yes they had 16 21 inch B&C drivers. That was what they chose to take out for the show. They can go up to 8 subs per side which equates to 16 drivers per side. They are a large company so they can afford it. As I said before, I wouldn't buy everything at once. I'm just starting so I'd start small. However for the type of shows I want to do, I require alot of low end and I understand that going with 18's would be cheaper and the weight advantages would be better but I would need too many cabs to get the low end I require. I went to show recently and they have 16 eaw sb1000 subs per side powered by macrotech amplifiers and in my opinion, although they sounded good, the low end output from them came nowhere close to the 4 dual 21 inch subs per side at the other show I went to. So I had just made up my mind to go dual 21 inch from the start.
Just because you went to a show and whey used XYZ and you liked it and went to another show and they used ABC and  you didn't like it really doesn't say much about either system.

Unless you know how well the system was powered, setup/aligned, how good the mix guy was (specifically on how he handled the low end) and so forth, it is hard to say that one system worked better than another.

It could be that the EAW system you said you didn't like may have been operated that way for some reason.  I have done shows that the FOH guy would actually get rid of the deep lows because they didn't like it.

You really have to compared under more controlled situations with like sources to really start to understand the differences.

I am not defending one system or the other, but you really can't compare like you are trying to do-usually.

You say that you have heard systems that compare to the Danley TH221.  How many systems have you heard that use the TH221?  How do you know how well they compare?  Have the other sound companies done side by side testing? and were you there?

Just wondering how you can make such a comparisom.
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Ivan Beaver
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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2011, 06:48:06 pm »



You say that you have heard systems that compare to the Danley TH221.  How many systems have you heard that use the TH221?  How do you know how well they compare?  Have the other sound companies done side by side testing? and were you there?

Just wondering how you can make such a comparisom.

Anything is possible in your dreams......
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Re: Dual 21 inch subs
« Reply #9 on: November 23, 2011, 06:48:06 pm »


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