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Pro rack house / LS9
Bob Leonard:
In my world where I generally work to crowds of 1000 or less people (getting old) we / the band, will usually mix ourselves from the stage with the help of a "spotter" out on the floor. This has worked well for us. Larger gigs where sound is provided are generally a no brainer, but still require the use of a mixer on stage as we supplement our backline, horns, etc. using Roland XV-3080 sound modules through the board to an SRX system designed just for that purpose.
My current on stage board is a Mackie 1640. Not because it was low priced, but because the sound quality and construction of the Onyx series is very good. In the almost 7 years I have had it racked it has never needed service, there have been no problems with any channel or feature, it's 6 aux send/receives are enough, the 4 BUS design is what I need, and demo recordings can be made quickly with little patching of the board. Not a bad recommendation for a $1400 board, but it's day is coming to an end.
My desire has been to go digital for quite some time now, and my choice if that is the case will be an LS9-16, which I feel might be a perfect stage mixer for my purposes. I would look forward to removing much of the outboard gear, the flexibility of the LS9 and the step up in sound quality.
My dilemma, and the reason for the post is simply this. I am anal when it comes to tonal quality regardless of the component. Now this may seem like an oxymoron considering I use the 1640 now, but the 1640 has great tone and when combined with the right outboard components, speakers and amps the sound is very warm and natural sounding.
A part of the equation is my ability to reach out with my left hand and correct the mix without pause or hesitation.
Having stated all the above I'll be making my move to a new board in the spring. I'm sure that the LS9 will serve me well, and have no concerns regarding tone or capability.
I have also read whatever is available about the APB Pro house board. I have listened to, and been very impressed with the sound quality of systems mixed through the APB board, and it has all of the features I need for an on stage mix.
So there would be the question. If my real quest is for better sound quality without the loss of features, does it make sense for me to purchase an LS9, or would I be just as well off with the APB Pro House. The difference in price is not a part of the equation.
Below is a picture of the mixer in it's rack to be replaced.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.
Dick Rees:
Bob....
IMHO the sound quality of the APB is well above the Yamaha digital. I'm pushing 70 and well appreciate not having to haul a lot of outboard, but the rack mounting of whichever console you choose renders the savings somewhat moot.
Given the quality of the preamps and the channel EQ I'd go with APB for sure.
If you want to go digital I wouldn't bother with the (slow access/multi-meu) LS9. The StudioLive 16:4:2 will do it in a more "analog" fashion as far as quick access goes, will save the outboard and sound as good or better than the Yamaha.
You guessed it......not a Yamaha fan.
APB #1!!!
Don McMeckan:
Bob Leonard wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 16:23
In my world where I generally work to crowds of 1000 or less people (getting old) we / the band, will usually mix ourselves from the stage with the help of a "spotter" out on the floor. This has worked well for us. Larger gigs where sound is provided are generally a no brainer, but still require the use of a mixer on stage as we supplement our backline, horns, etc. using Roland XV-3080 sound modules through the board to an SRX system designed just for that purpose.
My current on stage board is a Mackie 1640. Not because it was low priced, but because the sound quality and construction of the Onyx series is very good. In the almost 7 years I have had it racked it has never needed service, there have been no problems with any channel or feature, it's 6 aux send/receives are enough, the 4 BUS design is what I need, and demo recordings can be made quickly with little patching of the board. Not a bad recommendation for a $1400 board, but it's day is coming to an end.
My desire has been to go digital for quite some time now, and my choice if that is the case will be an LS9-16, which I feel might be a perfect stage mixer for my purposes. I would look forward to removing much of the outboard gear, the flexibility of the LS9 and the step up in sound quality.
My dilemma, and the reason for the post is simply this. I am anal when it comes to tonal quality regardless of the component. Now this may seem like an oxymoron considering I use the 1640 now, but the 1640 has great tone and when combined with the right outboard components, speakers and amps the sound is very warm and natural sounding.
A part of the equation is my ability to reach out with my left hand and correct the mix without pause or hesitation.
Having stated all the above I'll be making my move to a new board in the spring. I'm sure that the LS9 will serve me well, and have no concerns regarding tone or capability.
I have also read whatever is available about the APB Pro house board. I have listened to, and been very impressed with the sound quality of systems mixed through the APB board, and it has all of the features I need for an on stage mix.
So there would be the question. If my real quest is for better sound quality without the loss of features, does it make sense for me to purchase an LS9, or would I be just as well off with the APB Pro House. The difference in price is not a part of the equation.
Below is a picture of the mixer in it's rack to be replaced.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.
Hi Bob, my situation is somewhat like yours, in that I mix from stage while playing guitar. Three different bands, a four piece 70's rock band, a contemporary country band, and a Steely Dan tribute. The tribute and the country band also has in-ear monitors.
I use either a LS9 32, or a DM 1000, depending on how much room on stage or if either one of those is at another gig.
The LS9 takes a bit of time to get set up before playing, but is extremely easy to mix while playing. Note that in the country band, 4 out of the 5 members are sound techs, they take care of their own monitor mix with 2 minutes of training!
With the tribute band, three years ago I decided that handling 3 horns, keys, bass, drums, 2 elect. guitars, 2 acoustic guitars, 5 vocals, 3 stereo in-ears, 4 wedge mixes and FOH duties, all while being the lead singer and playing guitar was just too much, so I hire a FOH and mon. tech for every gig now.
I just sold my MixWiz a month ago, and no longer own an analog mixer. The Yamaha's have never even hiccuped in 3 years ( LS9 ) or 5 years ( DM 1000 ).
As far as sound goes, I believe you should not hear a difference in sound between Yamaha, APB or Presonus as long as your gain structure is sorted. Judging by your posts and the gear you operate, I'd say you are well sorted in that area.
My vote goes to the LS9 16, but you should try them all before buying.
I have a small sound company and do some small festivals, and a bit of corporate work and haven't had any issues with digital there either.
Thanks, Don
Rick Stansby:
Bob Leonard wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 08:23
... Not a bad recommendation for a $1400 board, but it's day is coming to an end.
When you say the board is "coming to an end." Is it not functioning correctly, or do you want to add more channels, fx, dynamics or outputs?
I'm not sure you'll get a huge advantage from the APB, as compared to the Onyx. Sure the APB will sound better, and have better controls and more routing, but not enough to justify the upgrade (assuming the mackie still works.)
Quote:
My desire has been to go digital for quite some time now...
An LS9 will give you dynamics, more fx, graphic EQs for the wedges, and so much more. If you want those things, than it is probably worth it to upgrade.
Tim Tyler:
Bob -
Why not just replace the Mackie with a new one? Whether or not one of your candidate mixers sounds better can be highly subjective, and you run the risk of any new mixer not sounding "right" to you or a band member. 1640 - new on eBay for under $1k, firewire versions a little more.
If I were going to invest in ANY analog mixer, it would have to be at seriously low money, new or used.
-Tim T
LS932, iLiveT112, 01v96vcm...
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