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[Bob Leonard]

In my world where I generally work to crowds of 1000 or less people (getting old) we / the band, will usually mix ourselves from the stage with the help of a "spotter" out on the floor. This has worked well for us. Larger gigs where sound is provided are generally a no brainer, but still require the use of a mixer on stage as we supplement our backline, horns, etc. using Roland XV-3080 sound modules through the board to an SRX system designed just for that purpose.

My current on stage board is a Mackie 1640. Not because it was low priced, but because the sound quality and construction of the Onyx series is very good. In the almost 7 years I have had it racked it has never needed service, there have been no problems with any channel or feature, it's 6 aux send/receives are enough, the 4 BUS design is what I need, and demo recordings can be made quickly with little patching of the board. Not a bad recommendation for a $1400 board, but it's day is coming to an end.

My desire has been to go digital for quite some time now, and my choice if that is the case will be an LS9-16, which I feel might be a perfect stage mixer for my purposes. I would look forward to removing much of the outboard gear, the flexibility of the LS9 and the step up in sound quality.

My dilemma, and the reason for the post is simply this. I am anal when it comes to tonal quality regardless of the component. Now this may seem like an oxymoron considering I use the 1640 now, but the 1640 has great tone and when combined with the right outboard components, speakers and amps the sound is very warm and natural sounding.

A part of the equation is my ability to reach out with my left hand and correct the mix without pause or hesitation.

Having stated all the above I'll be making my move to a new board in the spring. I'm sure that the LS9 will serve me well, and have no concerns regarding tone or capability.

I have also read whatever is available about the APB Pro house board. I have listened to, and been very impressed with the sound quality of systems mixed through the APB board, and it has all of the features I need for an on stage mix.

So there would be the question. If my real quest is for better sound quality without the loss of features, does it make sense for me to purchase an LS9, or would I be just as well off with the APB Pro House. The difference in price is not a part of the equation.

Below is a picture of the mixer in it's rack to be replaced.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.

[Dick Rees]

Bob....

IMHO the sound quality of the APB is well above the Yamaha digital. I'm pushing 70 and well appreciate not having to haul a lot of outboard, but the rack mounting of whichever console you  choose renders the savings somewhat moot.

Given the quality of the preamps and the channel EQ I'd go with APB for sure.

If you want to go digital I wouldn't bother with the (slow access/multi-meu) LS9.  The StudioLive 16:4:2 will do it in a more "analog" fashion as far as quick access goes, will save the outboard and sound as good or better than the Yamaha.

You guessed it......not a Yamaha fan.  

APB #1!!!

[Don McMeckan]

Bob Leonard wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 16:23

In my world where I generally work to crowds of 1000 or less people (getting old) we / the band, will usually mix ourselves from the stage with the help of a "spotter" out on the floor. This has worked well for us. Larger gigs where sound is provided are generally a no brainer, but still require the use of a mixer on stage as we supplement our backline, horns, etc. using Roland XV-3080 sound modules through the board to an SRX system designed just for that purpose. My current on stage board is a Mackie 1640. Not because it was low priced, but because the sound quality and construction of the Onyx series is very good. In the almost 7 years I have had it racked it has never needed service, there have been no problems with any channel or feature, it's 6 aux send/receives are enough, the 4 BUS design is what I need, and demo recordings can be made quickly with little patching of the board. Not a bad recommendation for a $1400 board, but it's day is coming to an end. My desire has been to go digital for quite some time now, and my choice if that is the case will be an LS9-16, which I feel might be a perfect stage mixer for my purposes. I would look forward to removing much of the outboard gear, the flexibility of the LS9 and the step up in sound quality. My dilemma, and the reason for the post is simply this. I am anal when it comes to tonal quality regardless of the component. Now this may seem like an oxymoron considering I use the 1640 now, but the 1640 has great tone and when combined with the right outboard components, speakers and amps the sound is very warm and natural sounding. A part of the equation is my ability to reach out with my left hand and correct the mix without pause or hesitation. Having stated all the above I'll be making my move to a new board in the spring. I'm sure that the LS9 will serve me well, and have no concerns regarding tone or capability. I have also read whatever is available about the APB Pro house board. I have listened to, and been very impressed with the sound quality of systems mixed through the APB board, and it has all of the features I need for an on stage mix. So there would be the question. If my real quest is for better sound quality without the loss of features, does it make sense for me to purchase an LS9, or would I be just as well off with the APB Pro House. The difference in price is not a part of the equation. Below is a picture of the mixer in it's rack to be replaced. Thanks in advance for any suggestions or advice.

Hi Bob, my situation is somewhat like yours, in that I mix from stage while playing guitar. Three different bands, a four piece 70's rock band, a contemporary country band, and a Steely Dan tribute. The tribute and the country band also has in-ear monitors.

I use either a LS9 32, or a DM 1000, depending on how much room on stage or if either one of those is at another gig.

The LS9 takes a bit of time to get set up before playing, but is extremely easy to mix while playing. Note that in the country band, 4 out of the 5 members are sound techs, they take care of their own monitor mix with 2 minutes of training!

With the tribute band, three years ago I decided that handling 3 horns, keys, bass, drums, 2 elect. guitars, 2 acoustic guitars, 5 vocals, 3 stereo in-ears, 4 wedge mixes and FOH duties, all while being the lead singer and playing guitar was just too much, so I hire a FOH and mon. tech for every gig now.

I just sold my MixWiz a month ago, and no longer own an analog mixer. The Yamaha's have never even hiccuped in 3 years ( LS9 ) or 5 years ( DM 1000 ).

As far as sound goes, I believe you should not hear a difference in sound between Yamaha, APB or Presonus as long as your gain structure is sorted. Judging by your posts and the gear you operate, I'd say you are well sorted in that area.

My vote goes to the LS9 16, but you should try them all before buying.

I have a small sound company and do some small festivals, and a bit of corporate work and haven't had any issues with digital there either.

Thanks,       Don

[Rick Stansby]

Bob Leonard wrote on Sat, 15 January 2011 08:23

... Not a bad recommendation for a $1400 board, but it's day is coming to an end.

When you say the board is "coming to an end."  Is it not functioning correctly, or do you want to add more channels, fx, dynamics or outputs?

I'm not sure you'll get a huge advantage from the APB, as compared to the Onyx.  Sure the APB will sound better, and have better controls and more routing, but not enough to justify the upgrade (assuming the mackie still works.)

Quote:

My desire has been to go digital for quite some time now...

An LS9 will give you dynamics, more fx, graphic EQs for the wedges, and so much more.  If you want those things, than it is probably worth it to upgrade.

[Tim Tyler]

Bob -

Why not just replace the Mackie with a new one?  Whether or not one of your candidate mixers sounds better can be highly subjective, and you run the risk of any new mixer not sounding "right" to you or a band member.  1640 - new on eBay for under $1k, firewire versions a little more.

If I were going to invest in ANY analog mixer, it would have to be at seriously low money, new or used.

-Tim T

LS932, iLiveT112, 01v96vcm...

[Bob Leonard]

All,
Thanks for the replies. When I say the boards day is at an end it's because I want to take a step up in tonal quality and versatility. The 1640 itself is in perfect condition, as is the firewire option. Reading the replies has me second guessing again. Dick has sent the only reply stating the audio quality of the APB is superior to the LS9, and others state I'll hear no difference in the sound at all.

Are there any APB owners out there ??

[rick earl]

I know this was not part of your original post, but have you considered the Roland M300 V mixer? I find easier to navigate than the LS9, sonically it is great. And would work with your monitor system.  It would be one of my top choices for a stand alone system and comes in at a good price point.  It also is easy to configure for recording.  I have specified a few in church and school systems with some great success.  Not rider friendly, but I don't think that matters in your situation.

As per your original post, I use LS9s and APBs a few times a year.  I am happy with both.  APB is quicker to navigate but the extras you get with the LS9 make it the right choice for some of my applications.  The reason for the LS9 spec over the Roland had to do with other inventory from Yamaha and the ability to use and swap MY cards.

[Tim Tyler]

Bob -

Steve Payne, Soundworks (Richmond, Va), has a good supply of APB mixers, and much experience with them.  

Re:  the Roland M300... The cost of the surface plus the stage box system will be in the over $7k range for 16x8 channels (plus the 10 or so inputs on the surface).  This is LS9-32 realm.

Unless you do a direct A/B with your mixer & one you're considering, it's a tough call as far as sound quality.  As far as versatility, any new digital mixer will provide more in that area, IMO.

Happy hunting!

-Tim T

[Andrew (A.J.) McGlynn]

Bob, I have mixed on both and love both. I just bought an LS9 for one of our new campuses and it meets our needs. I have also used a Pro Rack House. I never had the chance to A/B them so I cannot comment too much on the sound quality between the two. However I know I was super impressed by the APB. For an analog mixer you cannot beat the feature set for the size. I love the variable HPF.

My vote would be for the APB for your situation. I think it would be way easier to just grab what you need on the APB. The LS9 will take a couple steps to do anything. I am not a digital hater, I love the LS9. But based on your needs I think the APB would make for an awesome rig. If you had a FOH engineer I would change my vote.

A.J.

[Guy Johnson]

I have both the 1640 and APB ProRack House.

I prefer the APB over the Mackie:

~ Good solid sound, better than the Mackie.
~ Mic amps are great, used them for recording as well as live, and very pleased with the result.
~ Channel metering
~ 20 mic amps rather than 16.
~ Adjustable steep HP filters are fantastic, as is the rest of the EQ.
~ Eq can be pre aux or not.
~ The rear connector panel can be swivelled easily
~ loads of line inputs
~ Small size ... not too many Units used.

Best bet is to hire one, and see how it flies, then you can decide between that and the Mackie. One thing I like about the Mackie is you can change your solo bus to PFL or AFL.

As for the digi option, I hardly ever use them, and only the big Yammies you meet at festivals.
But, as you are already racked up, you will have your outboard patched, so not much of a problem. And with the APB you'll have some more units spare for more comp/gates and EQ.

Hope that helps ...

G

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