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Author Topic: DSP Tower of Babel  (Read 7040 times)

Kemper Watson

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #10 on: January 09, 2011, 04:15:38 am »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 08 January 2011 17:40

Bennett Prescott wrote on Sat, 08 January 2011 15:55

Ivan,

This month?

I'll try to find some time.

Do you have a Driverack 260? I could let you use mine if it would help.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #11 on: January 09, 2011, 01:57:10 pm »

Kemper Watson wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 04:15

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 08 January 2011 17:40

Bennett Prescott wrote on Sat, 08 January 2011 15:55

Ivan,

This month?

I'll try to find some time.

Do you have a Driverack 260? I could let you use mine if it would help.

The actual measurement Bennett wants does not take any time.

It is all in the setup.

I don't have any DBX products.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Ivan Beaver

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2011, 02:00:44 pm »

Chad Johnson wrote on Sat, 08 January 2011 23:56

Bennett
Do you think there's any benefit to a similar approach to the EQ sections on digital consoles? I know it would be another project to undertake, but I always thought it would be interesting to know how different units would respond to different settings.

I will be able to contribute V7 shots of some DSP units. Are you coordinating different models in offline conversations? No sense taking the time if someone else is doing the same model.

-Chad

I feel consoles are a completely different situation.  Yes they may be different-but so what?  They should be adjusted by ear/taste-not trying to dupilcate settings-like you would do with a DSP.

I feel that the  console falls into the "artistic" side of things, while DSP's fall into the "scientific" side of things.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Bennett Prescott

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 03:16:08 pm »

Chad,

I'm with Ivan on this one, I don't know anyone who takes settings from one console and manually programs them one channel at a time into another console... maybe I just haven't met them.

I have done no offline coordination as of yet, but I also have only one measurement so far!
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-- Bennett Prescott
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ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2011, 03:53:59 pm »

Chad Johnson wrote on Sat, 08 January 2011 22:56

Bennett
Do you think there's any benefit to a similar approach to the EQ sections on digital consoles? I know it would be another project to undertake, but I always thought it would be interesting to know how different units would respond to different settings.

I will be able to contribute V7 shots of some DSP units. Are you coordinating different models in offline conversations? No sense taking the time if someone else is doing the same model.

-Chad


Yup, I discussed this also in my past rants about lack of a Q/Bandwidth standard.

There is eventual merit in characterizing the actual flavor of console equalizer Q/bandwidth, if and when we start using some quasi-standard interface between either generic control surfaces or generic back ends, or both, and want our EQ to work and sound the same as our favorite old iron.

A much less pressing problem than the babelicious crossover presets that are tangled up here and now.

JR
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2011, 05:14:16 pm »

Bennett Prescott wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 15:16

Chad,

I'm with Ivan on this one, I don't know anyone who takes settings from one console and manually programs them one channel at a time into another console... maybe I just haven't met them.

I have done no offline coordination as of yet, but I also have only one measurement so far!

And if you were so picky aobut that, then that would also be assuming that the sound systems were exactly alike-which they are not-from room to room.

Maybe similar with like cabinets-but still not the same.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Bennett Prescott

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2011, 06:35:06 pm »

I've got measurements from two different processors already, and thought everyone might find this interesting. This processor natively uses Q to define filter bandwidth. The green trace is what these settings "should" look like. The blue trace is what happens when you plug bandwidth numbers into a Q device, as the two definitions are inverse of each other all the filters become much wider, although apparently this processor doesn't let you have 11+ octave filters.

index.php/fa/34676/0/
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-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

Bennett Prescott

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #17 on: January 11, 2011, 03:20:58 am »

One quick update, and I'm sorry for the confusion.

In Smaart 7 the non-16K FFT option is "MTW".
In Smaart 7 the delay finder is not called "auto small", just use the auto delay finder.
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-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

Chad Johnson

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #18 on: January 12, 2011, 01:17:32 am »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 14:14

Bennett Prescott wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 15:16

Chad,

I'm with Ivan on this one, I don't know anyone who takes settings from one console and manually programs them one channel at a time into another console... maybe I just haven't met them.

I have done no offline coordination as of yet, but I also have only one measurement so far!

And if you were so picky aobut that, then that would also be assuming that the sound systems were exactly alike-which they are not-from room to room.

Maybe similar with like cabinets-but still not the same.


Not picky at all. Of course console EQ is for artistic elements and not for a reference room tune or speaker processing. I understand the reasoning in DSP standardization and have talked about it here myself.  

I was simply mentioning I myself have been curious in the past how different digital consoles come up with their EQ algorithms. I'm most experienced with Yamaha digital console EQ and compared to a Profile, for instance, I find there is a difference in how I use them. It might have more to do with looking at the displays and mixing with eyes more than ears.

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Digital consoles are so 2006. The real future is in steering bass arrays.

John Roberts {JR}

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Re: DSP Tower of Babel
« Reply #19 on: January 12, 2011, 12:02:35 pm »

Chad Johnson wrote on Wed, 12 January 2011 00:17



Not picky at all. Of course console EQ is for artistic elements and not for a reference room tune or speaker processing. I understand the reasoning in DSP standardization and have talked about it here myself.  

I was simply mentioning I myself have been curious in the past how different digital consoles come up with their EQ algorithms. I'm most experienced with Yamaha digital console EQ and compared to a Profile, for instance, I find there is a difference in how I use them. It might have more to do with looking at the displays and mixing with eyes more than ears.



While I don't have first hand experience (witrh digital consoles), I expect the EQ in better digital consoles will be voiced to mimic some successful previous console. In serious consoles this voicing goes beyond just the Q/bandwidth, but also involves control law (speed and range).

The company I was working for once brought in a well known record producer for me to work with when voicing a recording console EQ.

JR
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