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Author Topic: Trig? help... anyone?  (Read 9977 times)

Matt Vivlamore

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #10 on: December 22, 2010, 11:30:28 am »

Bennett Prescott wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 10:39

Charlie Zureki wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 09:24

Ask when the gun had been last calibrated prior to the event, to what "standard" , and who calibrated it and were they certified to actually calibrate it?  Do they keep records of these calibrations?

This is how you win this. You are not going to convince a judge that a footbridge was going 90MPH. Try asking to see the gun's source code, after all, you hbe a right to face your accuser.

In the past I have gotten the DA talked down to a two point non-moving violation with little effort. The one time I hired an attorney I got that same deal.

In MD, (at least what is said in court) the Radar Guns are check & calibrated before the working shift.
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #11 on: December 22, 2010, 12:01:25 pm »

Matt Vivlamore wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 10:30

In MD, (at least what is said in court) the Radar Guns are checked & calibrated before the working shift.

 Of course they are.  Rolling Eyes  No offense...that is EVERY Policing group's statement and not exclusive to MD.

 The truth is, with all of the cutbacks in Federal & State funding... they probably haven't had their Calibrating equipment, Calibrated for years.

 People generally get caught up in what they view as the most important aspects of their jobs. Having Radar equipment Calibrated is probably not one of them, including the keeping of accurate and detailed records.

  I'd insist that their Calibration Records be produced. I'd ask for the Calibration Certificate on their standard.

 If they could not produce them in the Court room at the time of appearance, I'd request that the Judge dismiss the Ticket.

  In the matter of any Tickets...they want you to plead guilty. If you will not plead & pay they'll offer you a deal.

  The burden is on them to prove that you were violating the traffic laws....make them earn their money.




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John Roberts {JR}

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #12 on: December 22, 2010, 01:13:29 pm »

The calibration issue is not going to be a get of jail free card if you were clocked significantly over the limit.

They don't generally ticket unless you are going significantly over.

Perhaps on a good night you can get it reduced.

If you were speeding be glad you weren't ticketed in one of the European countries where they take your first born child.. or something of similar value.. We like to think of the autobahn, as fast and easy, but they can be difficult in some countries.


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Ned Ward

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #13 on: December 22, 2010, 04:03:48 pm » if you can - you can do it once every 18 months (at least in CA) and helps with Insurance.

I'd go in and be humble. 1995 -  I went into a court in Coalinga over a speeding ticket (105 in a 70, officer called it 99) and was planning on using the excuse my speedometer was broken (which it was; verified by the officer who got in my passenger seat of my Jetta and had me drive 1/2 mile down the 5 and back). Mandatory court appearance, and fee could ahve been as high as $1200 so I wasn't going to pay that.

Trucker ahead of me in for speeding ticket. His excuse - speedometer wasn't working. Judge rips into him and an argument between the 2 ensues for 10 minutes, ending in the driver having to be driven up from Long Beach the next week.

I went up, and when he asked how I plead, I said "guilty" almost before he could finish the sentence. He looked at me and said, "you know what would have happened had it been 30 miles over the limit, right?" I said yes, and got out with only a $219 fee.

Jason Dermer

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #14 on: December 22, 2010, 09:31:59 pm »

26 years driving and I have yet to be hit with a moving violation that I have been convicted (even at a reduced penalty)for, and this includes 150+ mph in a 35, eluding, reckless, and other idiocy when I was younger and regularly taking my racebikes out for jaunts on the street.

I've also spent a lot of time in municipal court and civil courts for other reasons NOT involving me being stupid.

You will NOT beat the officer by questioning his competence at face value. You are the evildoing speedster terrorizing the roadway and he is the well respected enforcer of the legal system. But there are other options...

Was he trained and certified to operate the exact model of equipment he nailed you with?

Was the equipment calibrated to factory spec in the proper time frame?

Is all of the information on the ticket correct,includng statute numbers, time of day, date, your info, etc?

Was the officer working a double, or outside of his usual shift? Taking any medication? Any other demonstratable cause for error? Be very careful and sure of what you are going for if you tread in this direction.
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David Karol

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #15 on: December 22, 2010, 09:46:22 pm »

David C Nickerson wrote on Wed, 22 December 2010 00:31

Hoping someone can help me crunch this...

If I'm holding a LIDAR laser gun, and have a target at 584', how much does my beam move, if I'm handheld with my gun, assuming I move 1/8", 1/4, maybe 1/2"?

I've figured there's a 21" beamwidth at range, but am thinking that a little wiggle in the trooper's hand could have had him shooting the footbridge, and not me.

Hoping to raise enough doubt to save $3K in insurance penalties.

Thanks in advance,

Was this the one on Storrow Drive two months ago?  There's no way he clocked you where he said he did, probably hit the car who sped right past, the big filled van was just the easier catch.  

Bob Lee (QSC)

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #16 on: December 23, 2010, 03:27:15 pm »

Bob Lee
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Bob Leonard

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #17 on: December 24, 2010, 09:18:49 am »

I beat a LIDAR ticket for over $500 last year. My argument was based on fact and photos. I took pictures of where the cop was, the bushes that were in his way and then measured the distance to where he pulled me over based on the time it took to stop me.

I also asked a key question and that was where was he aiming the gun. Be aware that police are taught to aim for the front license plate, and I don't have one (hint). All in all a little math proved I wasn't going anywhere near as fast as the cop said I was.

So, any bushes or obstructions, how far to stop you vs how long it took the cop to pull you over, no plate = no pay for ticket, at least in my case. Any thing other than fact or science won't get you anywhere.

Also check the ticket to see if the use of LIDAR was checked or noted. That was also a part of my beating the ticket. So when you go to court let the cop make his case and if he did not specifically state LIDAR on the ticket you then have an opening to speculation or a guesstimate of speed. The cop who gave you the ticket probably won't be the same cop in court and there is then reasonable doubt.
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David C Nickerson

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #18 on: December 24, 2010, 09:24:57 am »

Hey All,
Thanks for all of your advice on this.
Yes David K, this is for the stop when I was bringing you to that job at the boathouse.

The way it works in Massachusetts is that you are guilty unless you can prove otherwise.

Your first chance to get out of the citation is with a Magistrate (clerk) and a representative of the police department.  Typically, if you have some sort of strong argument, the magistrate will offer a reduced fine.  

The alleged offender can accept a deal from the Magistrate or request a hearing with a judge.

The magistrate did offer me a discount on the ticket -from $200 to $125 for an alleged 60mph in a 40mph zone.  Even though I wasn't speeding, I don't really have a problem with paying the fine.  The big problem for me is that in Massachusetts, the insurance penalty is insane.

I was not speeding.  In a full-size van, in a narrow lane, especially after seeing the trooper set up going the other way on the road minutes earlier, I was driving in the slow traffic lane at the 40mph speed limit.

I'm confident the trooper hit another vehicle with his LIDAR gun.  I've returned to that stretch of road, and can't get over 50mph... (I've tried!).

I declined the Magistrate's discount, requested a hearing with a judge.  As I left the courthouse, I realized that I wanted to get the make and model of the LIDAR gun to help better prepare.  I returned to ask the Trooper what make and model, she said that she didn't know those numbers, but that I could file a motion to request that information.  I did, and was floored when yesterday I got a letter (next day) from the Clerk.  It's marked "Denied.  You May Request the Lidar's Certification from the Trooper."

I'm stumped.  

I guess I'll play along and request this certification, but don't understand why I'd be denied the opportunity to learn what make and model the LIDAR unit is.


Just trying to save $1000+ in insurance penalties.  

Thanks again all, Happy Holidays!

Noah Waldron

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Re: Trig? help... anyone?
« Reply #19 on: December 24, 2010, 12:10:25 pm »

One question........... Were you speeding?
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