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Author Topic: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's  (Read 32351 times)

Seth Hochberg

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #20 on: December 19, 2010, 10:56:14 am »

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 15:30

You may wish to send a PM to a poster on here named Nimrod Webber - he is one name that sticks in my mind as using arrays of Bill Fitzmaurice designs professionally. I think he does DR290 over LABSubs.

To expand on this statement of mine... It is worth noting that Nimrod is in Israel, where the availability of quality off-the-shelf gear is probably far more limited than for our corner of the world. Homebrewing large systems is probably a much more reasonable option when your alternative is to pay large import costs, if you can get something imported at all.
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David A. Parker

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #21 on: December 19, 2010, 02:49:03 pm »

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 09:56

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 15:30

You may wish to send a PM to a poster on here named Nimrod Webber - he is one name that sticks in my mind as using arrays of Bill Fitzmaurice designs professionally. I think he does DR290 over LABSubs.

To expand on this statement of mine... It is worth noting that Nimrod is in Israel, where the availability of quality off-the-shelf gear is probably far more limited than for our corner of the world. Homebrewing large systems is probably a much more reasonable option when your alternative is to pay large import costs, if you can get something imported at all.


I build my own cabs because cabinet building is a hobby. From a strictly business standpoint, you can't justify cab building. After you add all the costs that you don't think about, like screws and handles and paint, sandpaper, etc, there is no economic motivation, then there's resale, which is nonexistent with homebuild cabs.
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David Parker
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Rick Powell

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #22 on: December 19, 2010, 02:56:36 pm »

David A. Parker wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 13:49

then there's resale, which is nonexistent with homebuild cabs.



With the rare exception of something like the LAB Sub, if it is impeccably constructed, and where you might recover the cost of materials and perhaps a little extra.
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Rick Powell
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #23 on: December 19, 2010, 03:11:17 pm »

David A. Parker wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 13:49

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 09:56

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 15:30

You may wish to send a PM to a poster on here named Nimrod Webber - he is one name that sticks in my mind as using arrays of Bill Fitzmaurice designs professionally. I think he does DR290 over LABSubs.

To expand on this statement of mine... It is worth noting that Nimrod is in Israel, where the availability of quality off-the-shelf gear is probably far more limited than for our corner of the world. Homebrewing large systems is probably a much more reasonable option when your alternative is to pay large import costs, if you can get something imported at all.


I build my own cabs because cabinet building is a hobby. From a strictly business standpoint, you can't justify cab building. After you add all the costs that you don't think about, like screws and handles and paint, sandpaper, etc, there is no economic motivation, then there's resale, which is nonexistent with homebuild cabs.



Dave-

And let's acknowledge your contributions to both building and using your speakers:  you have a solid understanding of both what you're building and the limitations of it.  You have a good grip on what your clients expect and what they actually need.

Your reasoned use of proprietary gear is successful because of the things YOU bring to the table.  Based on your posts over the years, I'd guess that you'd do your best possible work with any rig you used, too.

Enjoy the holidays!

Tim Mc
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David A. Parker

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #24 on: December 19, 2010, 04:47:59 pm »

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 14:11

David A. Parker wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 13:49

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 09:56

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 15:30

You may wish to send a PM to a poster on here named Nimrod Webber - he is one name that sticks in my mind as using arrays of Bill Fitzmaurice designs professionally. I think he does DR290 over LABSubs.

To expand on this statement of mine... It is worth noting that Nimrod is in Israel, where the availability of quality off-the-shelf gear is probably far more limited than for our corner of the world. Homebrewing large systems is probably a much more reasonable option when your alternative is to pay large import costs, if you can get something imported at all.


I build my own cabs because cabinet building is a hobby. From a strictly business standpoint, you can't justify cab building. After you add all the costs that you don't think about, like screws and handles and paint, sandpaper, etc, there is no economic motivation, then there's resale, which is nonexistent with homebuild cabs.



Dave-

And let's acknowledge your contributions to both building and using your speakers:  you have a solid understanding of both what you're building and the limitations of it.  You have a good grip on what your clients expect and what they actually need.

Your reasoned use of proprietary gear is successful because of the things YOU bring to the table.  Based on your posts over the years, I'd guess that you'd do your best possible work with any rig you used, too.

Enjoy the holidays!

Tim Mc

All very true. There are serious limitations with proprietary gear. All my clients hire me for my skills and trust that whatever I bring will satisfy their needs. All my clients know me. If I was trying to compete I'd need marketable products, and homebuild cabs are not marketable.
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Kevin Unger

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #25 on: December 19, 2010, 09:53:19 pm »

David A. Parker wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 19:49



I build my own cabs because cabinet building is a hobby. From a strictly business standpoint, you can't justify cab building. After you add all the costs that you don't think about, like screws and handles and paint, sandpaper, etc, there is no economic motivation, then there's resale, which is nonexistent with homebuild cabs.



My T39's and THT's have made me money, twice over.

Best part about homebrew is when people ask where I got my subs and tops, because they sound excellent. "Oh, I built them..."

Labs, compared to Bill's designs are an undertaking to build. I built all four of me t39's in two weeks, from buying supplies - to finishing them up the day of a show and gigging.

Again, I'm in the situation that buying a half decent rig would be shooting myself in the foot, as no gigs pay enough already. For us that strictly do bar shows, they're great.


My $.02
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Dave Rickard

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #26 on: December 19, 2010, 11:08:14 pm »

Kevin Unger wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 19:53

My T39's and THT's have made me money, twice over.

Best part about homebrew is when people ask where I got my subs and tops, because they sound excellent. "Oh, I built them..."

Labs, compared to Bill's designs are an undertaking to build. I built all four of me t39's in two weeks, from buying supplies - to finishing them up the day of a show and gigging.

Again, I'm in the situation that buying a half decent rig would be shooting myself in the foot, as no gigs pay enough already. For us that strictly do bar shows, they're great.

It's good that they are working out for your business model.  

I have BFM Tuba 30's.  They're OK, but not what I had hoped.

I also designed and built some fine passive tops that sound awesome, IMO.  Tweaking the crossover components took months until I was happy.  I am still thrilled with them!  (but I very rarely use them commercially anymore)

BECAUSE--

I found that during EVERY advance phone call for an out of town act, I had to "sell them" to every BE.  And who could blame them?  I was coming off as a bush league provider and it was holding me back.  Who wants to put their reputation in the hands of a guy who won't spend money on his own business?  Maybe they're great!  Maybe they suck!  By the time the BE finds out, it's too late to change.

My business model needed badges on the cabinets.
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Dave
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Nimrod Webber

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #27 on: December 20, 2010, 06:32:27 am »

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 17:56

Seth Hochberg wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 15:30

You may wish to send a PM to a poster on here named Nimrod Webber - he is one name that sticks in my mind as using arrays of Bill Fitzmaurice designs professionally. I think he does DR290 over LABSubs.

To expand on this statement of mine... It is worth noting that Nimrod is in Israel, where the availability of quality off-the-shelf gear is probably far more limited than for our corner of the world. Homebrewing large systems is probably a much more reasonable option when your alternative is to pay large import costs, if you can get something imported at all.


I’ll cash my 0.02 Shekel…

First I would like to correct a (maybe) false impression as to the offer and availability of big brands gear here in Israel.
As someone with fair grasp of this field I would say vailability in general is good. Sure, not all of the industry labels and
their full line of products are represented and on the shelf but for the size of this place (and consequent needs)
I guess this is understandable. If one chooses to go with almost any of the major names or products this is manageable,
as done by the bigger providing companies around the country.

The prices of big name pro audio products here depend on many factors and range from about the same price,
up to about double the US price!! The import tax on most audio/lighting/entertainment related products is 15%,
so with properly managed sourcing and shipping, reasonable prices can generally be obtained. For the most part,
even for a weekend worrier (like me…) it’s not too hard to put one’s hands on first line gear and build a nice branded setup.

As to DIY’ing cabs in general, cost saving is not necessarily the only justification for DIY projects.
It can sometimes be a secondary consideration or even completely ignored, as in some cases a DIY project
may actually turn out costing more than the alternative commercial cab (if one exists).

One needs to actually experience a good and successful DIY cab project, to really appreciate and understand
the pure joy and satisfaction of finishing a cab, testing/tuning it and listening/using it and enjoying its sound
every time from thereafter. This is the main ‘added value’ or bonus of DIY work that makes it worth the time and effort.

As mentioned befor, set aside the trivial issues of rider friendliness, resell value etc,
If one’s operating skills are good, and whatever equipment he brings along is reliable, set up safely,
sounds (and looks…) good, makes him money and everyone happy, who cares what’s written on it.

Nice branded cabs don’t automatically guarantee great sound at a gig.
They may however to some extent, help distract from poor operating skills…

Of course, with larger scale (array?) systems, the DIY route is much more complicated and demanding.
No doubt big money can be saved but there are also many technical and design issues
(acoustical, structural, safety etc.) that need to be addressed by qualified professionals,
to produce a safe, good sounding and practical product.        

Happy holidays to all…  Smile

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Connif Boudoin

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #28 on: December 20, 2010, 10:12:55 am »

Hey to everyone and to the OP. I own and operate one of the larger DR cabs, the DR290. This cab is smaller in design than the DR300 but for me has the same or in my case better drivers than the design calls for. We started with an original build of 6 of the DR290's with the eminence standard drivers. These cabs were able to get really loud in groups and we very happy with volume. It did take a lot of time like you would expect to get something that sounded really good with out having any processor settings to go with. We set the system up several times just to tweak the processor to get it right. After doing some larger outdoor events we saw that the drivers weren't up to the task even though we felt the box had more to give if it had different drivers. We eventually changed drivers and ended up with a really good box for what we were trying to do.

Before I go on further I want to answer the OPs question. I have built BFM cabs, and with that said I would never take on building a system this size that was not my own. If you build this setup you will always have the responsibility to maintain and tune it. It will be your responsibity to find replacement drivers or anything else the system needs. And like everyone else said you will need to find a way to deploy this huge PA safely. Now if you are just looking for cabs to run a PA for your own use and or not planning to do National acts with National act riders then the cabs are pretty good for this and you can build a pretty good sized system without costing a small fortune. Unless you have any Engineering skills like Nimrod you may want to stay with a smaller BFM system that you can ground stack. Like everyone else said flying is a whole nother ball game.

Now to finish my story on the BFM cabs. Our final product is a DR290 with Eminence 3012HO drivers for mids and the BMS 4552NDs that I purchased from Jack Arnott. These are processed with an Ashly 4.24c. Like I said earlier we started with 6 cabs. 3 cabs a side for a moderately sized system that we were looking to do small festivals with, that could cover crowds of 2000 to 3000 outdoors. After the driver changes we made the system was able to do what we asked of it. It will get relatively loud and I am no longer having driver issues and after tuning it for about a year we were able to end up with a very respectable system. To post some raw numbers, nothing scientific, we are able to get with a 3 box system a side about 105db C weighted at 180 feet out outside (RS Meter). This is a pretty decent area and covers a large crowd. Normal volume for the rig usually runs 105 - 110db C weighted at 80 feet out again outside. This is louder than most people want to hear when getting closer to that 110 mark. We do several festivals a year all with good results. There is no doubt that the work ethic like stated earlier is a big part of the repeat work we get but with the savings we received from building our own setup it also allow us to build a rig I am not sure I could ever afford to have. I debate all the time about whether or not to look into a bought system, but I have yet to come across something I like more than what I have for anything even remotely close to what I paid. I could go on about the cabs for pages but not sure someone wants to read my rants. Anyway I have never did this but here is where I think the DR290 falls in the real world.

1. A pretty hard cab to build.
Cost me about $700.00 a box to build with present drivers.(no labor considered in cost)
2. I personally think the DR290 "we built" is a step above the JBL SRX offerings. 722 or 725. They are not in the relm of a Vertec box but do have considerable SPL for the number of cabs and power used. We use about 14000 watts for this setup with up to 4 boxes a side. A JBL rig with this volume would take twice the power. Works great for places that just don't have the Power you need.
This cab may not be for everyone. But I like it.
Not rider friendly but I don't do many if any rider jobs. I have not had any problem to date with rider acceptability but I also have not done any major acts. Mostly C national acts. All were very surprised with the system.

Thanks for listening to my rant.
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: Bill Fitzmaurice - Titan 48's & DR300's
« Reply #29 on: December 20, 2010, 11:06:14 am »

Rick Powell wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 14:56

David A. Parker wrote on Sun, 19 December 2010 13:49

then there's resale, which is nonexistent with homebuild cabs.



With the rare exception of something like the LAB Sub, if it is impeccably constructed, and where you might recover the cost of materials and perhaps a little extra.



Nope...
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