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Author Topic: My first pair of Labs  (Read 9698 times)

Tim McCulloch

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #10 on: January 07, 2011, 11:47:54 pm »

There has been a lot of discussion about adhesives.  Use Google and search on "glue epoxy" and append this - site:srforums.prosoundweb.com and the returned hits will be filtered to this domain only.

Consensus is the West System is overkill and unnecessarily expensive for this application.

Yes, baltic birch is recommended.

Have fun, happy sawdust.

Tim Mc
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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2011, 10:03:15 am »

Martin Toft wrote on Wed, 05 January 2011 00:25


and please don't hate just because i'm 17. Everyone has to start somewhere. Maybe a little too advanced start but i like a challenge Smile


17? I started annoying Tim here when I was 15! Laughing

The LABs are a great value sub. Just get a real amp to drive them, and you'll be happy for years to come.




Evan
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Martin Toft

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #12 on: January 08, 2011, 01:44:15 pm »

I started looking for all the plans today and started making a booklet and printing out everything and putting it all together. hopefully I will find epoxy and wood today.

I'm selling my XTI-4000 and a pair of Turbosound Txd-151 tops for about $3000. yeah i'm lucky to sell it all for a price that good. Then i can just pay a little more and I have an i-Tech HD or an i-Tech. is the i-Tech HD worth the extra cost? i have been looking at it lately and it looks like an outstanding amp.

Again, Tim and Evan, thanks for all your help Smile
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2011, 01:25:52 pm »

Hi Martin-

Evan is still annoying, but he's a lot smarter than he was 6 years ago. Wink  What helped him here is that he's not a whiny, petulant baby with an attitude.  You seem to be well-adjusted, too.  I think you'll enjoy your time here and learn a great deal.  Stick with us.

You really don't need to use epoxy.  The expense and short open life once mixed makes them less than desirable for a weekend builder.  The consensus was that Elmer's Professional Carpenter's Glue.. now it's Elmer's "Wood Glue MAX" has the right combination of strength, workability and price.  You don't have to go overboard.

What about your exterior finish, and what application methods are available to you?  Some builders have used black paint on the interior and had Rhino or similar truck-bed liners applied to the outside, others have used Sherwin-Williams Polane-T (water based).  I'm betting some have rolled on flat black latex from the local home store...  Regardless, a search will give you lots of ideas and you can see what others wished they had done.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc
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John Chiara

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2011, 11:26:50 pm »

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 13:25

Hi Martin-



You really don't need to use epoxy.  The expense and short open life once mixed makes them less than desirable for a weekend builder.  The consensus was that Elmer's Professional Carpenter's Glue.. now it's Elmer's "Wood Glue MAX" has the right combination of strength, workability and price.  You don't have to go overboard.



Tim Mc


I guess the extra effort might be a pain but I have 6 "normal" labs and 2 "epoxy" ones and the epoxied boxes are super solid. the labs have large expanses of single plywood sheet....and the extra thickness of the epoxy really makes the box "feel" tight..but I have no measurements.
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #15 on: January 10, 2011, 11:00:54 am »

John Chiara wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 23:26

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sun, 09 January 2011 13:25

Hi Martin-



You really don't need to use epoxy.  The expense and short open life once mixed makes them less than desirable for a weekend builder.  The consensus was that Elmer's Professional Carpenter's Glue.. now it's Elmer's "Wood Glue MAX" has the right combination of strength, workability and price.  You don't have to go overboard.



Tim Mc


I guess the extra effort might be a pain but I have 6 "normal" labs and 2 "epoxy" ones and the epoxied boxes are super solid. the labs have large expanses of single plywood sheet....and the extra thickness of the epoxy really makes the box "feel" tight..but I have no measurements.


John, properly done with PL-Premium there will be no difference.

The biggest difference in LABs that I've seen is going from cheap plywood to real Baltic Birch plywood.

Martin, I never like to discourage anyone, and I'm only 23 and have built 16 LAB subs, but I highly recommend you think twice about it unless you already have a full-fledged wood shop and ample precision wood construction experience.

My first set of four LABs probably took me a hundred hours to complete, and they were just OK. Nothing overly special.

You WILL need a very precise table saw. I'm talking 1/64 inch precision. Your $200 Ryobi isn't going to cut it. Plan on having several routers, or you are going to spend more time changing router bits than anything. You will not be using anything other than a table saw and a pile of routers for this project. If you think you need a circular saw or jigsaw, you are doing something wrong.

Four LABs will cost you $4000 in parts to do properly. Also consider the time you are going to put into the project. It's probably not worth your time to build them for a friend, unless he's a really, really good friend. To recoup your investment you'd be looking at selling LABs for $2000 each.

Also note, building LABs specifically to sell is against the copyright.

I don't like to discourage, but there are far too many people that think they are going to take on LAB construction as a casual project, in which case they will be sadly disappointed at the outcome.

Building LABs is roughly equivalent to building a car from scratch.
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #16 on: January 10, 2011, 01:26:27 pm »

Agreed, if one doesn't have Norm Abrams facilities and skills, this isn't a project to begin with.

A similar sub is available in flat kit form from Pi, if Wayne is still making/marketing them.  He has everything pre-cut and ready for assembly or offers (offered?) kits requiring more assembler-fabricated parts.

The precision required to build an air-tight horn sub is not trivial.

Have fun, etc.

Tim Mc
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Art Welter

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #17 on: January 10, 2011, 02:30:40 pm »

Silas,

Having designed and built cabinets similar to the Lab Sub, and having also built a car from scratch, I can say that the two are not comparable, building a car is far more difficult and time consuming.

I can also say that absolute precision is not needed to build a good sub, paintable latex caulk can be used to fill minor gaps. Airtight is airtight, and sound waves from 10 to 40 feet long could care less if all the joints "look pretty".

An old friend of mine used to make a pair of six foot tall 18" scoops in a weekend using a circular saw, jig saw, drill, belt sander and copious amounts of caulk. Though the cabinets looked ugly, they made plenty of bass. After seeing how much time a router can save, he did start using one.

I do agree that using Baltic or good quality domestic birch (hard to find lately) will make a difference in output, and that epoxy is not needed.

Art Welter
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Jeff Bailie

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #18 on: January 10, 2011, 03:34:33 pm »

I built 6 Labhorns with no prior wood working experience.

I did spend about 30 days watching YouTube tutorials prior to making sawdust, so I could get to know the names of the joints I was trying to cut. And so I wouldn't cut my fingers off.

I spent time to make quality Jigs for the Flare pieces, and cut them on my table saw.

I Dovetailed and Rabbit Eared all the outer panels.

I used biscuits to join the inner module.

I used West Systems Epoxy on everything.

I used 18mm 13ply Baltic Birch.

The cost was just over $1000 per sub.

It took me 48 days to build 6 Labhorns.  Shocked  About 400 hours.

I bought a very nice Table saw with a 54 inch fence, a Biscuit Joiner, a Router, and a new drill. So add about $2500 to the total.

Your also gonna need Amps, A system possessor with Delay for your tops, and a bunch of cables.. (this is when it gets expensive)

I'm not trying to discourage anyone either. I have 12 labhorns now. They are awesome. Totally worth the work in my opinion.

But....  Lately people have been selling used ones in the Lab Marketplace for under $900 a piece. Which by the way is crazy cheap. You may want to just buy some. Something to think about...

P.S. Your going to want more than 2.  
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BooYaKahSha

Martin Toft

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Re: My first pair of Labs
« Reply #19 on: January 10, 2011, 10:07:09 pm »

ok. there is a lot of different opinions here. what i'm getting out of it is that since i'm not a skilled woodworker i should not attempt to start a project like this. and that's OK. you guys have a lot of experience and are professional. It is very much sense in what you are saying. it is just hard for me to realize how hard it is, but as i had problems understanding the plans, i figured it was more advanced than i had anticipated. the reason i wanted to build these LAB's was because i think woodworking is fun and i like speakers and PA. it will probably be my future hobby. what bothers me is that i don't understand how this can be so hard! (and yes i don't know anything about the build yet.) I am a person that can't quit at this point. I never give up on anything! But my understanding is that a LAB beyond my level of knowledge and i will simply not be able to make it. One other reason i really wanted to make them is to help my new friends out! I felt that if I could make them a subwoofer this great i would feel very much appreciated! And I would also be very proud to have accomplished such a build. But one thing i have learned throughout the years of a stubborn teenager is to listen to others and their advices. Especially in a situation like this where i stand very weak.I also want to build them because i want to learn and i love getting smarter and gaining knowledge.

Since this is as hard as you say it is a solution to the problem could be to build a different sub! with an easier design. one that maybe will work better (if possible) for a mobile dj setup! If you have any suggestions please help me out!

one thing that i have found out is this. As I actually am a foreign exchange student from Norway and just live here in Arizona temporarily, intelligent high school kids are hard to find. i don't mean "school smart" kids but socially smart and at the same time intelligent. talking to you all is great as you are people i can learn from, instead of people i teach it to.

Thanks again guys
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