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[Ivan Beaver]

Randy Freemire wrote on Thu, 16 December 2010 11:49

I saw a post comparing it to a massive eaw box (KF940), and that sucker costs over 2 HUNDRED THOUSAND DOLLARS!!!  That boggles my mind.

I am quite sure they are no where near that expensive.

But as with many other numbers and specs that people throw around in audio-it is no doubt that some people believe that price (just like they believe a lot of the output SPL specs )-as apparently you do.

Where did you get the price from? Here say, or did somebody quote that price to you?  Did you see it online somewhere?

As the old saying goes-"You won't sell many at that price-but at that price-you don't have to"

[Randy Freemire]

Ivan wrote:
Where did you get the price from? Here say, or did somebody quote that price to you? Did you see it online somewhere?

I did a quick search when I saw the topic on comparing the EAW KF940, and the price I saw was astonomic, and it was used!  Looking again I'm not finding the link.  Didn't look that far, but I didn't see any pricing for the KF940.  Is that a discontinued unit?  What's its approximate price?

Tim,
Yes, I think I get it about the purity of the matter.  I would suggest however that having a super vibrant online community is a goal in and of itself.  I don't know how to evaluate this forum, I just know that when I went from Motifator.com (for my Motif XS7), it was absolutely great: tons of plugged in members, 2-3 active factory experts, a lot of very knowledeable users, etc.  When I sold the Motif and got the Korg M3, I like the board a lot more, but I miss the forum, it's nothing compared to Motifator.  There's very few super knowledeable users that frequent it, about 1/4 as much traffic/posts, and almost never any factory experts chiming in.  

So beyond the self-interest of having a vibrant online community, there's also the public service of being a gateway for a new relationship to tech.  Sure, some people have it in their blood as diy-ers, sure some are comfortable and more than willing to delve in to the minutia and relate to so much information, sure a lot of folks have been trained in it or grew up around it- but that's preaching to the choir when you say it's about purity.  

How about all the folks who are immersed in this technological culture of our times (and being a musician these days typically means a lot of technology) and have little to no hands on experience with it- but not necessarily from lack of aptitude and interest?  I would guess that's a whole lot more people than the ones who happen to know already they've got the aptitude and interest to tackle a big project like this.  And money matters- many folks would go to this much trouble to save money, and then come to find out it's an amazing project to be involved in 'cause the results are so outstanding- et voila, you've been a vital part in helping someone go from consumer to builder/diyourself.

I'm still of the opinion that a Sticky like I described, and other means of navigating this forum for beginners, would be a friendly welcome to the start of a considerable journey.

[Ivan Beaver]

Randy Freemire wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 18:53

I'm still of the opinion that a Sticky like I described, and other means of navigating this forum for beginners, would be a friendly welcome to the start of a considerable journey.

Part of the whole "Educational" learning experience is not having the the answer handed to you, but all of the learning that you get while searching for the answer, not so much the answer itself.

Yes, you get the result real quick that way-but a lot of the whole DIY experience is the knowledge (good and bad) that you get along the way TO the answer.

[Tim McCulloch]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 20:13

Randy Freemire wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 18:53 I'm still of the opinion that a Sticky like I described, and other means of navigating this forum for beginners, would be a friendly welcome to the start of a considerable journey. Part of the whole "Educational" learning experience is not having the the answer handed to you, but all of the learning that you get while searching for the answer, not so much the answer itself. Yes, you get the result real quick that way-but a lot of the whole DIY experience is the knowledge (good and bad) that you get along the way TO the answer.

That's pretty much what I said, but in fewer words.  Thanks, Ivan.

Have fun, good luck.

Tim Mc

[Jeff Bailie]

I would say that we do have a super vibrant, and very intelligent community here on PSW.  The most experienced people in the industry are on here. And the folks who design and manufacture the products they use are right here also.

They are so intelligent that they prescribed reading the entire Lab Subwoofer forum. They do this because this is what it takes to build the Cabinet.

What I enjoy most about this project is that you get to be a scientist too. You have to chance to build it the way you think is best. You have the facts from the creators. The opinions of the other DIY folks and the opinions from the audio pros.

Have any of your questions about the Labhorn gone unanswered?
I doubt it.

These people here on PSW are punctual too. If I need info about anything at all, I can get it here quickly. There are people sitting at there computers right now wishing you would ask them something technical. Just sitting there.. Ready to slap you with an equation.

No need for a sticky. It would just tell you to read all this info, and don't cut your fingers off.

   

[Joe Breher]

Hopefully, my recent experience will throw more light than heat onto the matter.

I have recently become re-interested in the LabSub. Some two or three years ago, I was very interested, but recognized that my biz could not at that time support such an investment.

However, it is looking as if this is the year for the sub upgrade.

Accordingly, I was prompted (by some external factors that may become clear within the next week or two) to reacquaint myself with the knowledge herein.

Accordingly, over the last two weeks or so, I have read every thread on this board that looked to be LabSub-oriented. All 25 pages of thread headers.

There are a lot of interesting nuggets buried throughout. However, there is also an overwhelming redundancy.

Even after all that, many threads make references to early discussions that no longer exist. These would be discussions documenting the evolution of the requirements specification, early design parameters, etc. I assume they must have gotten lost in some site re-org. I'm sure they exist somewhere, but it ain't in the LabSub forum.

Soo....

If anyone would take the time to index the *primary* content, and make the index a sticky, I think it would be beneficial.

Further, if anyone knows where the early discussions are archived, at least a link to that should be a sticky.

ETA: Thanks for the " http://web.archive.org/web/20050209025454/home.comcast.net/~ labhorn/" link. I'd seen references to the comcast.net/~labhorn site, but that is no longer available, and I didn't know to properly dereference it in the waybackmachine. The link to the waybackmachine copy of it is another thing that belongs in a sticky.

[John Roberts {JR}]

That in short is the story of this entire website..

Since you just did the leg work I nominate you to do the index, I'm sure we can get it made a sticky, by popular acclaim.

The problem is finding the "someone" to do the actual work to organize all the info here into a useful index of links.

JR

[Jeff Babcock]

Randy Freemire wrote on Sat, 18 December 2010 18:53

Ivan wrote: Where did you get the price from? Here say, or did somebody quote that price to you? Did you see it online somewhere? I did a quick search when I saw the topic on comparing the EAW KF940, and the price I saw was astonomic, and it was used!  Looking again I'm not finding the link.  Didn't look that far, but I didn't see any pricing for the KF940.  Is that a discontinued unit?  What's its approximate price?

I think MSRP is somewhere north of 3K.  Certainly not hundreds of thousands of dollars..... LOL

You probably saw an ad for a large turnkey sound rig which may have included 940's.

[Chris Jensen]

I think JR has said it best.  All I typed before would be summed up best in this post.  I know the answers cuz I read it.  I don't feel like making a sticky.  A sticky won't be good enough because then PMs will go to that person asking specific questions.  I wouldn't even dare undertake such as task because it will never be good enough for everyone and someone will always complain.  If someone else wanted to, go right ahead.  Now here is the best part...  I bet one could read all 25 pages of the board much quicker then assembling a sticky of decent quality.  So I purpose this...

At the top of the LSP documentation page a few lines that read:
80hz and under.
SPL of properly built LAB see graph lower on page.
Impedance of properly build LAB see graph lower on page.
Weight of properly built LAB 240lbs +.
1 cab won't do much unless corner loaded, need at least 4
Cab is 1/12 of horn mouth, which is 27hz.
Cost of drives see links below.
Input power see "insert message thread here" or more then 1 watt less then 4000w.
Cost of plywood?  Where do you live, call a shop.  Probably more then you think it should cost.
How long will it take to build?  A lot of time!  Are you a hobbyist? A pro?  You will know once you have finished.  
There is no Version 1 of the driver, only Version 2 as 1 was a prototype.  Version 3 was a redesign of the cab for a living room.  

Funny, I think I just made a sticky!  But as I said no one will actually be happy with that.  All that info was gained from the first few posts and the LSP document page.

Have fun with my post please and don't be mad!

Chris Jensen

[jeffhtg (Jeff Kenney)]

1. Approximately how long it would take for someone with moderate woodworking skills to make one of these boxes.  How about the second one?

The first 2 labs I built took me a week. Half of that was spent setting up jigs so I could build more later.


2. Is there just one or are there several sizes (they seem huge from what i've seen).  What do they weigh?  What does it take to man handle them?

I'd recommend building the basic PSW version.. There is much work leading to this design.. all other "Variations" were for the most part single person creations.

3. What's the approximate cost for wood, speakers, etc.

$500 10 years ago

4. What do they compare to?

There are not many pro touring subs out there that sound as "hifi" as these. Danleys of course.. but I would digress that not to many tours are carrying those :/  And they can take a beating..

5. Is anyone making parts (such as cutting out all the pieces that you then assemble and glue)?

You can hire a CAD saw to cut for you.. but that takes all the fun out of the project!

6. What amplifiers and DSP are used?

I like QSC + Powersoft (you can read about 345431553 articles titled "whats the best amp for a lab")


I don't know of an EAW sub that will compare to these..