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Author Topic: 8x24 DSP Matrix products  (Read 5786 times)

Brad Weber

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #10 on: October 25, 2010, 01:07:26 pm »

Glennn Carolan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2010 10:10

The existing processing is an 11+ year old peavey media matrix 48 in/outs.

So you'd be replacing a totally programmable, open architecture system.  Do you happen to know the current programming?  The reason I ask is that although in most cases the days of having to verify sufficient DSP capability are past, you do sometimes see specific processing, such as automixers or matrix mixers (which are different than matrix routers), or user created 'blocks' for things like custom input processors or look-ahead limiters used in the processing that is programmed.  If you need or want to keep or incorporate any of these virtual devices or programming then you need to make sure that whatever device you choose supports them.  Since most of the DSP programming software is readily downloaded, it may not be a bad idea to create at least a conceptual program to verify that you can do what you want prior to making a decision on the hardware.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video

Glennn Carolan

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #11 on: October 25, 2010, 02:10:02 pm »

Yes, I know the current programming and it's not anything fancy, the open architecture processing is not being heavily utilized.  Most of it is just for routing and normal speaker end processing/eq/limit/comp/delay.  

I'm not sure what you mean by Matrix Mixing, compared to Matrix Routing?  It all seems like routing in this programming.  There are 2 mixers within the programing; one for combining LRC feeds for the Assistive Listening, and one for combining 2 feeds into a monitor mix.  There are no auto mixers in this programming.

Duh; What a great idea to download the software and create a conceptual program!  

Still debating on the 2 processor setup as well.  That would  involve two different config sources and config connections, but would have a backup device to produce some audio in case of a failure; after some config changes and wiring.


Still working on this, and I appreciate all of the knowledge and input from this forum!
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Brad Weber

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #12 on: October 25, 2010, 03:17:43 pm »

Glennn Carolan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2010 14:10

I'm not sure what you mean by Matrix Mixing, compared to Matrix Routing?

Essentially matrix routing is more like a bunch of switches, a crosspoint is active or not.  Think along the lines of the group and main assignments on the channel of a mixing console, you assign it to an output or not.  In that same context, matrix mixing would be more like aux sends where you can adjust the level for each individual crosspoint and create a unique mix for each output.

Matrix mixing takes greater processing but is nice to have when you need it.  A simple example is if you sum left and right signals to a mono output.  I matrix router would simply route the left and right signals to whatever outputs are desired, if both are selected for an output and both have any of the same content then the resulting combined signal is greater than either source signal.  A matrix mixer would let you adjust the gain of the left and right signals so that where both are routed to the same output the combined signal can have the same level as the source signal.  Or just like aux sends, you may want to create a matrix mix for ALS or overflow or whatever that emphasizes or deemphasizes specific signals, a matrix mixer allows this where a matrix router does not.
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Brad Weber
muse Audio Video

Jonathan Kok

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #13 on: October 25, 2010, 11:52:12 pm »

Brad Weber wrote on Mon, 25 October 2010 14:17

Glennn Carolan wrote on Mon, 25 October 2010 14:10

I'm not sure what you mean by Matrix Mixing, compared to Matrix Routing?

Essentially matrix routing is more like a bunch of switches, a crosspoint is active or not.  Think along the lines of the group and main assignments on the channel of a mixing console, you assign it to an output or not.  In that same context, matrix mixing would be more like aux sends where you can adjust the level for each individual crosspoint and create a unique mix for each output.

Matrix mixing takes greater processing but is nice to have when you need it.  A simple example is if you sum left and right signals to a mono output.  I matrix router would simply route the left and right signals to whatever outputs are desired, if both are selected for an output and both have any of the same content then the resulting combined signal is greater than either source signal.  A matrix mixer would let you adjust the gain of the left and right signals so that where both are routed to the same output the combined signal can have the same level as the source signal.  Or just like aux sends, you may want to create a matrix mix for ALS or overflow or whatever that emphasizes or deemphasizes specific signals, a matrix mixer allows this where a matrix router does not.

Add to that, Matrix Mixers w/ Delay, and really watch you DSP power disappear Wink  

Actually...reading through the spec (LCR w/ Delays), this is something you might want to do.  This allows you to not only adjust the individual levels going to every box, but also the delay time of that feed.  So, for your far-left-rear-fill box, you can both delay and balance the Left, Center, and Right feeds going to it (if any; no idea what the shape/size of your room is).

Currently fighting (and admittedly, losing) this battle with Biamp Nexia...too much I want to do, with too little processing power.  Stupid budget constraints...
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Glennn Carolan

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #14 on: October 27, 2010, 04:45:51 pm »

I downloaded the Ashly software and configured it to match what we have in routing/mixing/speaker configuration in about an hour.  I like the fact that i can set an IP address for ethernet control, I suppose that's fairly common with decent DSP these days.  

If 2 or more inputs are routed to an output - there is a mixer available to set the input levels for that output - creating a unique mix for that output (matrix mixing)- which is what the mixers within our current system do (matrix routing vs matrix mixing).  

There are only 2 items I don't see available that exist in our current system.

1:an option for adding a Comp to each input.  Students/inexperienced people generally use the system.  There is Limiting per output but nothing for the inputs, unless I'm missing something.

2:no Graphic eq.  Our current system has a graphic on each input.  There is probably enough para eq to do most anything the room needs - probably not a concern.



Any other 8x16 suggestions?

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Glennn Carolan

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #15 on: October 28, 2010, 08:57:32 am »

And the LCR mixer & snake is all analog, nothing digital in this case.
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Chuck Fudge

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #16 on: October 28, 2010, 02:08:04 pm »

I use the lectrosonics 1624.  16 in/24 out.  Works real nice and uses laptop software for setup.  They have a new line of processors out that have expanded capabilities.  We use one 1624 for page/program/hearing impaired for auditorium, and page/program of public concourses.
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Chuck Fudge
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Braden Auditorium/Bone Student Center

Langston Holland

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #17 on: November 02, 2010, 11:18:08 am »

Glennn wrote:

Any other 8x16 suggestions?


Very definitely.

(2) EAW UX8800 processors linked via U-Net using an Ethernet cable. This will give you (8) inputs routable to any of the (16) outputs. If the EAW loudspeakers you are using have "focused" presets available, this will result in a very noticeable improvement in the sound of the loudspeakers. If your loudspeakers do not have focused presets, then another solution will yield a better bang for the buck ratio.

If you have to deal with complex I/O, mic inputs on the processor, unknown system additions in the future, etc. take Brad's advice and Ivan's implication very seriously. Nothing can approach the flexibility of a "free wire" type processor. In my experience, the fuss about hardware DSP power limitations is incorrect and a result of the end user setting up the processor inefficiently (analogous to a beginning programmer using 50 lines of code when an experienced person achieves the same result in 20 lines).
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God bless you and your precious family - Langston

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Josh Millward

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Re: 8x24 DSP Matrix products
« Reply #18 on: November 11, 2010, 11:42:06 am »

Glennn Carolan wrote on Wed, 27 October 2010 16:45

Any other 8x16 suggestions?



Sure... have you considered using a new MediaMatrix product?

A new NION nX could easily be loaded with a line input card and three line output cards to provide you an 8x24 system in one 2RU frame with integrated GPIO and network control. This is a nice system that will allow a lot of room for future upgrades and expansions, if necessary.

Of course if you don't want to specify what your signal flow is, or be able to build custom devices, use NWare Kiosk to allow real time control of your system, use Python scripts, use FIR filtering, then a DSP processor is just a DSP processor and any one will do...

Sorry, I'm a little biased since I work for MediaMatrix... but I'd think if you like using MediaMatrix and it has proven to be reliable over the last 11 years, why move to something else?
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Josh Millward
Danley Sound Labs
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