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Author Topic: Help my ID these mystery woofers.  (Read 11037 times)

Tim Weaver

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Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« on: October 12, 2010, 01:42:19 pm »

I bought a storage unit full of sound gear. In it was some JRX 115 cabs that had these woofers in them. One looks factory, but the other has a horrible recone job on it that the spider has come loose. I can't figure out what they are in order to know if I want to keep them or not. Maybe someone here can help!?!

First the factory looking cone....

Notice the lack of any identifying marks. Completely flat back on the magnet. Nice cast basket.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-1.jpg

Factory looking cone.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-3.jpg

Number on the back of the factory looking cone.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-5.jpg


OK, here is the front and back of the bad recone job. The cone fits, but whoever installed it botched it pretty bad.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-4.jpg

Backside showing number.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-2.jpg


Thats it! Thanks for playing, and the winner receives a lifetime supply of good karma!

-=Tim=-
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Art Welter

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #1 on: October 12, 2010, 02:45:41 pm »

Tim Weaver wrote on Tue, 12 October 2010 11:42

I bought a storage unit full of sound gear. In it was some JRX 115 cabs that had these woofers in them. One looks factory, but the other has a horrible recone job on it that the spider has come loose. I can't figure out what they are in order to know if I want to keep them or not. Maybe someone here can help!?!

First the factory looking cone....

Notice the lack of any identifying marks. Completely flat back on the magnet. Nice cast basket.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-1.jpg

Factory looking cone.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-3.jpg

Number on the back of the factory looking cone.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-5.jpg


OK, here is the front and back of the bad recone job. The cone fits, but whoever installed it botched it pretty bad.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-4.jpg

Backside showing number.
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b376/HiSPL/Sound%20for%20sale/woofs-2.jpg


Thats it! Thanks for playing, and the winner receives a lifetime supply of good karma!

-=Tim=-


Top is an EV 15B, bottom is EV 15L.
There are different series, the old ones were 100 watts RMS, later ones were 200 watts and 3 dB less sensitive..
The 15L (lead) curvilinear cone allows for extended HF, really only useful for guitar or bass applications. The 15B is a good cone, but does not go very low by today's standards.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #2 on: October 12, 2010, 03:54:51 pm »

Looks like we have a winnah! Thanks Art. This community owes you a lot, due to your almost infinite knowledge of the old and arcane ways of sound reinforcement. Cool

Do you or anyone else know if the 15B cones will fit in the 15L frames? This L needs a recone and it would be nice if I could have a pair of B's instead of a mismatch like I've got now.....
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Art Welter

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #3 on: October 12, 2010, 04:15:13 pm »

Tim Weaver wrote on Tue, 12 October 2010 13:54

Looks like we have a winnah! Thanks Art. This community owes you a lot, due to your almost infinite knowledge of the old and arcane ways of sound reinforcement. Cool

Do you or anyone else know if the 15B cones will fit in the 15L frames? This L needs a recone and it would be nice if I could have a pair of B's instead of a mismatch like I've got now.....

Thanks.
They are identical magnet structures and frames, you can recone as a "B" or an "L".

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Tim Weaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #4 on: October 12, 2010, 04:37:22 pm »

Awesome! Thanks Art!
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #5 on: October 12, 2010, 05:10:52 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Tue, 12 October 2010 16:15

Tim Weaver wrote on Tue, 12 October 2010 13:54

Looks like we have a winnah! Thanks Art. This community owes you a lot, due to your almost infinite knowledge of the old and arcane ways of sound reinforcement. Cool

Do you or anyone else know if the 15B cones will fit in the 15L frames? This L needs a recone and it would be nice if I could have a pair of B's instead of a mismatch like I've got now.....

Thanks.
They are identical magnet structures and frames, you can recone as a "B" or an "L".



And you can also put the Pro line cones-for a bit more power handling.  Yes the frame/magnet assembly does not have all the "extras" that add to the power handling-but at least the voice coils will have the baked on treatment that helps to hold them together.
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Mike Smith

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2010, 07:33:36 am »

They are not EV -- or at least if they are, EV changed their basket tooling. The terminals should sit on a sort of "bridge" between two basket spokes, not on that square cast tab. The spoke profile is similar to EV's but not identical. The magnet back plate doesn't have the proper holes for mounting EV's famous finned magnet cover.

The "15B" cone appears to have a progressive surround, which again may be a newer EV style but not one with which I am familiar. The "15L" cone has a double half roll surround, which is also incorrect, but you already knew it was a recone.

PAS used to make some similar looking speakers, but I think most of that series had 3" voice coils instead of EV's 2.5". Regarding the basket design, more recently there is a flood of Asian-sourced knock-offs that use what is basically open tooling.

It would be fun to cut up one of the ones you have and take a closer look inside.
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Mike Smith

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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2010, 11:52:23 am »

I do see the 3 holes for the heat sink fins in the photo.

You are correct that the 15B's I have seen don't have a progressive roll.  But that may be an aftermarket kit installed.

The EV's I have around here have the bridge (as you describe) for the terminals-but I seem to remember (I could be wrong) seeing some EV's with the cast tab.  Although why they would change tooling just for that I don't know.

Good examination.  With a quick glance those look just like 15B's and 15L's, but as you point out-they may be a knockoff.

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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Tim Weaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #8 on: October 13, 2010, 01:18:33 pm »

Mike Smith wrote on Wed, 13 October 2010 06:33

They are not EV -- or at least if they are, EV changed their basket tooling. The terminals should sit on a sort of "bridge" between two basket spokes, not on that square cast tab. The spoke profile is similar to EV's but not identical. The magnet back plate doesn't have the proper holes for mounting EV's famous finned magnet cover.

The "15B" cone appears to have a progressive surround, which again may be a newer EV style but not one with which I am familiar. The "15L" cone has a double half roll surround, which is also incorrect, but you already knew it was a recone.

PAS used to make some similar looking speakers, but I think most of that series had 3" voice coils instead of EV's 2.5". Regarding the basket design, more recently there is a flood of Asian-sourced knock-offs that use what is basically open tooling.

It would be fun to cut up one of the ones you have and take a closer look inside.




Good eye Mike...

Later today I will cut into the bad one and see what size the VC is. Looking on the web, it *could* be a PAS but I'm not sure. I can't find any images of the back of a PAS woofer.

These baskets are cast and of excellent quality. The fit and finish are first rate. Are the chinese knockoffs finished that well?
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Art Welter

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #9 on: October 13, 2010, 01:26:59 pm »

Mike Smith wrote on Wed, 13 October 2010 05:33

They are not EV -- or at least if they are, EV changed their basket tooling. The terminals should sit on a sort of "bridge" between two basket spokes, not on that square cast tab. The spoke profile is similar to EV's but not identical. The magnet back plate doesn't have the proper holes for mounting EV's famous finned magnet cover.

The "15B" cone appears to have a progressive surround, which again may be a newer EV style but not one with which I am familiar. The "15L" cone has a double half roll surround, which is also incorrect, but you already knew it was a recone.

PAS used to make some similar looking speakers, but I think most of that series had 3" voice coils instead of EV's 2.5". Regarding the basket design, more recently there is a flood of Asian-sourced knock-offs that use what is basically open tooling.

It would be fun to cut up one of the ones you have and take a closer look inside.


Damn memory is not as clear as I thought.
After looking at my old EV catalog, I agree these speakers are  different, the spokes on the EV are more "L" shaped, these are a triangle.

The "15B" surround looks the same as the old EV reprint, but the "15L" double half roll surround looks different.

I have not opened a JRX 115, wonder if these are some JBL OEM thing?
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #10 on: October 13, 2010, 01:38:10 pm »

No. Definitely not a JBL product. The Stock woofer for the JRX series is a stamped frame job.
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Chris Davis

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2010, 12:21:56 am »

This may not be the least bit related, but then again it may.  The bottom cone reminds me very much of the original cone for the RCF L15P200AK.  (although the newer ones and the official recone kit has a "wet" plastic look around the surround and a much differet pattern of rings inside of that on the diaphram).  Anyhow these have a 3" voice coil.  They were used in the original non-"z" EAW SB series.

Quite a different magnet structure from what you show in the picture though.

Sorry for the small image size as this was all I could find within a few minutes.

index.php/fa/33076/0/




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Iain_Macdonald

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2010, 12:17:39 pm »

Tim,

Those drivers look like mid 1980's EVM OEM. Back then, EV also produced OEM versions for guitar/bass cab companies. eg Mesa Boogie, Trace Elliot etc. They made 10/12/15/18" They didn't have any EV identifying mark on them. Just a serial number and production code.

Iain.  
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Mike Smith

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2010, 03:10:08 pm »

Ia1n Macd0nald wrote on Thu, 14 October 2010 12:17

Tim,

Those drivers look like mid 1980's EVM OEM. Back then, EV also produced OEM versions for guitar/bass cab companies. eg Mesa Boogie, Trace Elliot etc. They made 10/12/15/18" They didn't have any EV identifying mark on them. Just a serial number and production code.

Iain.  


index.php/fa/33080/0/
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Mike Smith

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Iain_Macdonald

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2010, 03:57:47 pm »

Mike,

At EV over here, the ones I dealt with, had no stamp. There were different versions of EVM. Some had the cooling fins, Ivan referred to earlier. Maybe these are Chinese "tributes" to the original.

Iain.

edit: having second thoughts about this being EV.
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Elliot Thompson

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #15 on: October 14, 2010, 04:09:16 pm »

Hi.

Here is the original Electrovoice EVM 15 B

I picked up eight of them in 1996 from a shop that was going out of business. They were mounted in some very large old straight horns. All eight are now retired. The one pictured was never repaired so, you can make the comparisons to the other pictures posted.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/5366/cnxt0001.jpg


http://img814.imageshack.us/img814/7285/cnxt0002.jpg


Best Regards,
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Elliot

Art Welter

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #16 on: October 14, 2010, 06:25:45 pm »

The spoke difference between the mystery speakers and the EV is obvious in the pictures.

The mystery speaker's spokes actually look like a better design, more triangulation, and less distance from the "shoulder" to the "elbow".

I had some frame failures with the old EV, though only when cabinets were dropped quite a distance.
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Pascal Pincosy

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2010, 06:50:30 pm »

Looks like PAS to me as well. I'll try and get some pics posted later tonight.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #18 on: October 21, 2010, 01:16:32 am »

Well, these are not EV MI speakers it seems. I just measured the one where the spider is loose and it looks to have (at least) a 3 inch voice coil. I couldn't measure it perfectly because I didn't cut into it. I'm going to try and reglue the spider and see if I can make it work.

I was able to push the cone out enough to lay a tape next to the voice coil and it looks to be around 3 inches. Actually it looks more like 3+ inches, but it could just be the angle at which I could view it. At any rate, substantially more than 2.5 inches.

Maybe they are PAS....
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #19 on: October 21, 2010, 01:21:25 am »

Bingo. Here is a pic of a PAS made SWR driver. It's an 18, but it clearly shows the same basket spokes and terminal tab design.


http://www.speakerrepair.com/repairpicshtml/pas-swr-back.jpg
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Art Welter

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Re: Help my ID these mystery woofers.
« Reply #20 on: October 21, 2010, 03:03:07 pm »

Tim Weaver wrote on Wed, 20 October 2010 23:21

Bingo. Here is a pic of a PAS made SWR driver. It's an 18, but it clearly shows the same basket spokes and terminal tab design.

http://www.speakerrepair.com/repairpicshtml/pas-swr-back.jpg

Also, dear Weaver, clearly missing the vent hole in the magnet structure.

My inner Sherlock is heightened after my previous error...
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