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[Al Clayton]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Mon, 20 September 2010 19:50

What many customers fail to realize is that what they are really purchasing is a SOLUTION-and gear just happens to be part of that solution. They may be able to get a lower price on the gear-but how is it all going to hookup and actually WORK-without hums-distortion-droppouts and so forth. A pile of gear is one thing-and a pile of gear that produces a good sound is quite a different story. But sadly for the customer-they "assume" that every installer/designer is the same and the same result will come out of the same pile of gear.

Well Said! When someone asks for line item pricing, I like to use the analogy of buying a car. You wouldn't go into a car dealer and ask to see a list of every component in the car, with the price for each component, would you? You are buying a car, not a pile of components. OK you might ask "How much for the bigger engine or nicer seats?" But not "How much does the Fuel Injection system cost?"

[Jordan Wolf]

Al Clayton wrote on Mon, 27 September 2010 15:42

...When someone asks for line item pricing, I like to use the analogy of buying a car. You wouldn't go into a car dealer and ask to see a list of every component in the car, with the price for each component, would you? You are buying a car, not a pile of components. OK you might ask "How much for the bigger engine or nicer seats?" But not "How much does the Fuel Injection system cost?"

That's a good way to think about it, and it helped me understand the reasoning behind not itemizing every little thing.  Thanks!

I guess I'll just have to figure out a certain percentage of equipment cost for expendables.

[Adam Kane]

Jordan Wolf wrote on Tue, 28 September 2010 00:04

Al Clayton wrote on Mon, 27 September 2010 15:42 ...When someone asks for line item pricing, I like to use the analogy of buying a car. You wouldn't go into a car dealer and ask to see a list of every component in the car, with the price for each component, would you? You are buying a car, not a pile of components. OK you might ask "How much for the bigger engine or nicer seats?" But not "How much does the Fuel Injection system cost?" That's a good way to think about it, and it helped me understand the reasoning behind not itemizing every little thing.  Thanks! I guess I'll just have to figure out a certain percentage of equipment cost for expendables.

While I agree with everything that's been stated here...that has not been my experience in my town. In general this town has very little money and everyone wants to know exactly where every dime is going. There is also very little desire to have something sound good...as long as it turns on and makes noise, everything is fine. Like I said...we are told up front that if everything isn't itemized, we will not be considered for the job. We have lost jobs to other contractors not doing that. It sucks, but we have to do what we have to do to get work.

Keep in mind that around here, QSC rmx amps, Audio Technica Freeway Series wireless, and Soundcraft MPM mixers are considered "high end and really expensive." Even Behringer is considered out of the question many times. It's been like pulling teeth to try to introduce quality gear to area churches, schools, and other venues. Over the past 7 years things have slowly gotten better, but it's still an uphill struggle.

[Bob Josjor]

I itemize major components (mixers, amps, snakes, etc.) but not the little stuff.  It goes into a category called "Installation hardware."  I don't use a percentage of the equipment, but have gotten really good over the years at estimating about how much I'll have in patch cables, wire ties, etc.  Then I add another $100.00 to be safe.

Itemized vs. non-itemized?  Just depends on your practices.  My pricing on equipment is MAP so I don't worry too much about the customer price shopping me on the internet.  My nearest and largest competitor doesn't itemize and I've been told by many a customer that they don't like the lump sum approach.

I can see pro's and cons to both methods.

As for selling the cheap stuff?  Not going to happen with me.  Any time I have sold cheap gear I've lived to regret it.  And when it doesn't perform up to standards the customer never says "I guess I should have spent more on the gear."  What they do say is "That guy sold me a piece of crap.  I'm never going there again."