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Author Topic: cost effective dj rig?  (Read 7144 times)

(Brian) Frost

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cost effective dj rig?
« on: September 08, 2010, 01:38:02 pm »

Doing an install.  Trying to incorporate some of what they already own:  JRX 125s, xti 4000, crown ce1000.  

Spec'ing the jrx they have for fills in the smaller side room, and SRX 725 tops and 728 subs, a pair of each should cover their space with an itech 6000 for bottom and the xti they have for the tops.

Choosing the crown option mainly because of its limiting and included setup with the JBL boxes.  This will be run by DJs week in and week out, so Im hoping that combination will be enough rig for the gig and be bulletproof enough that they wont blow it up constantly.  

Looking for a more cost effective solution as well.  Any suggestions?  Yorkville?  Peavey?

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Frost

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frank kayser

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #1 on: September 08, 2010, 02:20:28 pm »

The limiting on an XTI is neither graceful nor pretty.
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(Brian) Frost

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #2 on: September 08, 2010, 02:36:56 pm »

valid concern, tho we are talking about upgrading a pair of jrx and a single mrx sub.  hopefully they wont hit the limiters so much if I put enough rig for the gig.
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Frost

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Evan F. Hunter

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #3 on: September 08, 2010, 02:48:48 pm »

Used Peavey QW comes to mind here The subs and tops. SRX should kick some serious ass compared to your JRXs though.  I would rather use some old Crown Macrotechs that you can buy used for fairly cheap now and a good DSP with proper limiting over and XTI though. Probably come close to the same price actually.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #4 on: September 08, 2010, 03:16:59 pm »

And/or the XTI6000 for subs. That saves a couple bucks and matches your top amp. Even though the limiters suck, they'll be floored by the performance of the SRX vs. JRX. I doubt they'll notice the limiting.
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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 07:25:14 pm »

Yorkville LS1208's. They're big, they're loud and they're everything a DJ wants and then some. They are cheap, and don't need much power either. A Crown IT4000 would be plenty to power 4. 2 will outrun the SRX's from about 45hz and up, 4 will outrun 4 SRX's all the way across the board.

EV QRX212 on top. They need less power, cost less then the JBL and sound good too.




Evan
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Jeff Wheeler

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #6 on: September 09, 2010, 01:47:37 am »

Use limiters.  Just because the current DJs have not blown up the current rig doesn't mean they won't hire an idiot next week.

EDIT: Also, I disagree with Evan unless his suggestion is to conserve budget resources for other things.  I would rather have SRX728S than an equal quantity of LS1208.  The SRX has more LF extension, equal efficiency within the Yorkville sub's bandpass, and 4dB more power handling.  Certainly the Yorkville subs are cheaper, but they don't win a cost/output or output/floor space comparison.
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Doug Maye

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #7 on: September 09, 2010, 09:42:53 am »

The Yorkies are really hard to beat for DJ venues. Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of the SRX subs. But the Yorkies pound hard and are ideal for club DJ rigs. Tough call, but being in Chicage makes choosing the Yorkies a lot easier. I think the distribution center for Yorkville in the states is somewhere around Buffalo NY. Thats a one day ground shipment if parts were needed. Something to think about. First time I got to use the LS1208's was a real eye opener for me. It was a festival event with 6 a side. It was plenty for the event.
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Stuart Pendleton

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #8 on: September 09, 2010, 09:46:05 am »

Specs say the low freq extension of the JBL is 2 hz lower in singles, max SPL of both cabinets is identical, and you can get there with less power to the LS1208.  What's the downside?  They are both large and heavy so that part is a toss up.

The 1208 did OK at the sub shootout a few years ago against some serious cabinets.  Not the tightest cabinet, but it is loud, cheap, and has reasonable response.  When you add more 1208's you begin to get better extension than the JBL also.  2-4 per side is a serious contender at the Lounge.

Jeff Knorr (Cobra Sound) has SMAART data posted on his website from the shootout.  Maybe not pound for pound, but certainly in the dollar for dollar category, 1208's are impressive subs.

EDIT: here is a link...

http://www.cobrasound.com/MDSubwoofers
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Jimmy Wright

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #9 on: September 09, 2010, 02:16:43 pm »

Look up Bill Fitzmaurice
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Silas Pradetto

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #10 on: September 09, 2010, 02:21:40 pm »

(Brian) Frost wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 14:36

hopefully they wont hit the limiters so much if I put enough rig for the gig.



Where are you living?

A DJ will ALWAYS use EVERY LAST OUNCE of rig you give him.

I provided for DJ Green Lantern, a national act himself.

HIS MONITORS were a pair of biamped Community TFR64S, with a pair of double 15 subs under them. You're talking about 10,000 watts of DJ monitor, and HE USED IT ALL.

His DJ monitor setup would be ideal for a several hundred person club...but that's what it took to make him happy, 3 feet away.
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Dave Rickard

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #11 on: September 09, 2010, 04:04:52 pm »

Jimmy Wright wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 12:16

Look up Bill Fitzmaurice

Better yet, buy mine!
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Dave
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(Brian) Frost

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #12 on: September 09, 2010, 09:02:48 pm »

unfortunately true, the dj's will use all I give them.  Maybe I should just consider boxes with a longer warranty since limiters dont guarantee driver safety.

Smile
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Frost

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Mike Pyle

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #13 on: September 09, 2010, 09:16:45 pm »

(Brian) Frost wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 18:02

unfortunately true, the dj's will use all I give them.  Maybe I should just consider boxes with a longer warranty since limiters dont guarantee driver safety.

Smile


The only mfgr I know that will warranty abused drivers is Yorkville.
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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #14 on: September 09, 2010, 09:33:43 pm »

Mike Pyle wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 21:16

(Brian) Frost wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 18:02

unfortunately true, the dj's will use all I give them.  Maybe I should just consider boxes with a longer warranty since limiters dont guarantee driver safety.

Smile


The only mfgr I know that will warranty abused drivers is Yorkville.


Yep. Yorkville's 2 year "even if you break it" warranty is hard to beat.

The LS1208 is hard to beat for cheap & loud for DJ's.



Evan
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Jeff Wheeler

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #15 on: September 10, 2010, 01:46:20 am »

Stuart Pendleton wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 08:46

Specs say the low freq extension of the JBL is 2 hz lower in singles, max SPL of both cabinets is identical, and you can get there with less power to the LS1208.  What's the downside?

The SRX specs are in full-space, so add 6dB to them unless you are flying these non-flyable subwoofers (and wonder at why JBL does not correct the cut sheet!)

I agree the LS1208 is a good sub at a good price.  The SRX is clearly better, though.  A/B them!  I put some into a nightclub today and I am very confident they were the best choice for the job.  After hearing the system, so is the customer! Smile
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Evan Kirkendall

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #16 on: September 10, 2010, 10:09:27 am »

Jeff Wheeler wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 01:46

Stuart Pendleton wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 08:46

Specs say the low freq extension of the JBL is 2 hz lower in singles, max SPL of both cabinets is identical, and you can get there with less power to the LS1208.  What's the downside?

The SRX specs are in full-space, so add 6dB to them unless you are flying these non-flyable subwoofers (and wonder at why JBL does not correct the cut sheet!)

I agree the LS1208 is a good sub at a good price.  The SRX is clearly better, though.  A/B them!  I put some into a nightclub today and I am very confident they were the best choice for the job.  After hearing the system, so is the customer! Smile


Have you had a chance to A/B them Jeff? I have. The LS1208 is simply louder with less power. It's not as tight or nice sounding as an SRX728, but it makes DJ's happy. I frequently see them in DJ applications and always recommend them. You can run a smaller amp on them and have headroom for days. They're loaded with a NEO b&c driver that can handle a shit load of abuse. And, even if you do manage to blow it up, Yorkville will replace it in the first 2 years!

I'm not saying the SRX728 is a bad sub, because it's not at all. I actually like it quite a bit, but for people on a budget, you won't beat the LS1208.

Just for some comparison:

LS1208:
1200w PRG
8ohms
105dB 1w/1m
35-200hz +/- 3dB (I've measure this though, and a single unit is -3 around 45hz)

SRX728:
3200w PRG
4ohms
98dB 1w/1m
33-220hz (I've measured this though, and it's more like -3 @ 40hz with no DSP)

The SRX728 wins for extension in singles, but once you start adding LS1208's together, the SRX728 stands no chance. You can also save on amp power and drive the LS1208's with a much smaller amp to get the same(or more) SPL.

Jeff, It's really a no brainer here. For someone trying to get loud on a budget, the LS1208 can't be beat. Especially for DJ use. You could drive a block of 4 on a single IT4000 and have enough SPL and LF extension for days. I've seen and heard DJ's do similar and the results are impressive. Yes, they are large cabinets, but if they're not going to be moved, then who cares?



Evan
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Stuart Pendleton

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #17 on: September 10, 2010, 10:43:29 am »

I agree Evan.  I have heard the SRX a number of times and they are OK.  I bought 4 LS1208s, run them from either an XTI6000 or an ITech6000 depending on the rack I take, and have no complaints. Not the tightest cab, they sure do make me money.  They are NOT Danleys, but the sonic difference between these run right and the SRX was not nearly enough to justify the difference in money.  I won't be stepping up until I can afford something much more substantial, if at all.

EDIT: Evan, I am running 4 QRX212s over 4 LS1208s which is what you mentioned and I have to say that it does work well for me.  My primary client is a modern country band that needs a fat bottom so it may just be the style of music lends itself to this system, but NO ONE has had anything negative to say when they hear the rig...but of course I am not working A or B level nationals, just regional and the occaisonal C national
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Reggie Kendrick

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #18 on: September 10, 2010, 10:44:10 am »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Thu, 09 September 2010 14:21

(Brian) Frost wrote on Wed, 08 September 2010 14:36

hopefully they wont hit the limiters so much if I put enough rig for the gig.



Where are you living?

A DJ will ALWAYS use EVERY LAST OUNCE of rig you give him.

I provided for DJ Green Lantern, a national act himself.

HIS MONITORS were a pair of biamped Community TFR64S, with a pair of double 15 subs under them. You're talking about 10,000 watts of DJ monitor, and HE USED IT ALL.

His DJ monitor setup would be ideal for a several hundred person club...but that's what it took to make him happy, 3 feet away.

LOL, ya'lls DJ stories always crack me up.  Green Lantern must be going deaf... I never want monitors THAT loud nor do I want a ton of low-end bass beside me when I'm spinning, ESPECIALLY if I'm using turntables (which I assume he does).

Phil Lewandowski

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #19 on: September 10, 2010, 12:10:48 pm »

Evan Kirkendall wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 10:09



Just for some comparison:

LS1208:
1200w PRG
8ohms
105dB 1w/1m
35-200hz +/- 3dB (I've measure this though, and a single unit is -3 around 45hz)

SRX728:
3200w PRG
4ohms
98dB 1w/1m
33-220hz (I've measured this though, and it's more like -3 @ 40hz with no DSP)





Evan



Hey Evan,


Just to kinda bring some clarification.  The SRX728 with 2 volts at 1 meter (1W/1M) does in fact average 103-104dB from 40-100hz on the ground.  (Goes along with the SRX718 averaging 100-101dB)



So it brings it closer to efficiency of the LS1208, *but* the LS1208 will still seems to get a touch louder with less power from my playing around with it.  As it looks like you mentioned the LS1208 not as smooth as the SRX728, and has a slight boomy quality to it, that can be tamed decently, but still isn't as smooth as the SRX728.  Even though as you mention the SRX728 probably does have an advantage down low, the distortion rises much quicker below 40hz.  The SRX718 and SRX728 really seem to be designed for high output above 45-50hz, and they do a great job of that for not a ton of money as an entry level pro sub.



I haven't been able to test what kind of SPL the LS1208 would actually put out in the real world with the distortion tests I have been running.  But from my SRX718 tests where from 50hz and up it was between 127-131dB with ~900 watts.  So you could figure the SRX728 would be in the 133-136dB region.  So it would be interesting to see what actual measured SPL an LS1208 would produce, because it does get loud.  The LS1208 is a touch bigger, just under 20% bigger, so nothing crazy.



Still for the money, if you are looking for lots of SPL on a budget the LS1208 is definitely towards the top. So that is why I think it is a very good option in the instance.  If the OP is looking to go a step up and doesn't mind spending a touch more money the SRX728 is definitely hard to beat for a dual-18" in its price range.


Take Care!
Phil
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(Brian) Frost

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #20 on: September 10, 2010, 01:26:57 pm »

all great information both for this install and just good to know info.

Thanks
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Frost

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Jeff Wheeler

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Re: cost effective dj rig?
« Reply #21 on: September 10, 2010, 01:27:19 pm »

Evan, you are comparing the full-space spec of the JBL box to the half-space spec of the Yorkville.  I have not had the opportunity to A/B them, but having used both subs, it is certainly not a no-brainer.  Both subs have advantages, but the LS1208's is really in cost IMO, not output per dollar or floor/truck space.
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