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Author Topic: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-  (Read 13530 times)

ryan alli

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Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« on: August 29, 2010, 11:47:04 pm »

I recently built a new t18 box for my evx180b subs with these specs  http://www.nrgrecording.de/html/t18.html Problem is, they sound great at lower volumes (150-200 watts) but at a little higher volume they sound all distorted! (500 watts). I tried using a new evx180a I had lying around and it did the same thing! Any suggestions?
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #1 on: August 30, 2010, 07:28:25 am »

Saying that it sounds like garbage really doesn't give much to go on.  Maybe if you could tell us a bit more aobut how it really sounds-for example-slapping sound-cracking sound- floppy sound-no bass- no highs (in the bass range)-distorted and so forth.

It oculd either be the cabinet or the driver or a combination.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

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dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Paul O'Brien

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #2 on: August 30, 2010, 12:39:09 pm »

The EVX180B is not a sub driver by modern standards, and the T18 isn't much of a subwoofer with response that only extends down to 50hz, so maybe you are expecting more than this design is capable of delivering.
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ryan alli

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #3 on: August 30, 2010, 07:53:16 pm »

its a flopping sound
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #4 on: August 30, 2010, 10:30:35 pm »

ryan alli wrote on Mon, 30 August 2010 19:53

its a flopping sound

Where do you have your highpass filter set?  You may be driving below its tuning. All loudspeakers will flp around when you do that.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

John Halliburton

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2010, 07:39:49 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Mon, 30 August 2010 21:30

ryan alli wrote on Mon, 30 August 2010 19:53

its a flopping sound

Where do you have your highpass filter set?  You may be driving below its tuning. All loudspeakers will flp around when you do that.


Or there is a leak in the cabinet.

John
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2010, 02:04:39 am »

Congratulations! It sounds like you built the T18 correctly because thats what they usually sound like....

Its really a bad, bad loudspeaker and could never be called a real subwoofer.
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Jimmy Wright

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #7 on: September 21, 2010, 02:37:52 pm »

+1
Set Highpass, check for air leaks, build something else

Try a T48 from Bill Fitzmaurice
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Kevin Unger

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #8 on: September 26, 2010, 10:50:13 pm »

Tim Weaver wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 07:04

Congratulations! It sounds like you built the T18 correctly because thats what they usually sound like....

Its really a bad, bad loudspeaker and could never be called a real subwoofer.


Heard/Built one?


I have an AT here loaded with the recommended TangBand 8inch and it sounds great in a car, with very little power.

Replaced two kenwood 10 inch "subs."  


t18 is a tiny sub designed for small rooms and to be corner-loaded. I don't get all the BFM knocking on here, when all the cabs perform as the graphs show on his site; and allow us diy'rs to build tested, easy to build cabs with a budget in mind.
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Art Welter

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #9 on: September 27, 2010, 02:21:22 am »

Kevin Unger wrote on Sun, 26 September 2010 20:50

Tim Weaver wrote on Fri, 10 September 2010 07:04

Congratulations! It sounds like you built the T18 correctly because thats what they usually sound like....

Its really a bad, bad loudspeaker and could never be called a real subwoofer.

Heard/Built one?
I have an AT here loaded with the recommended TangBand 8inch and it sounds great in a car, with very little power.
Replaced two kenwood 10 inch "subs."  

t18 is a tiny sub designed for small rooms and to be corner-loaded. I don't get all the BFM knocking on here, when all the cabs perform as the graphs show on his site; and allow us diy'rs to build tested, easy to build cabs with a budget in mind.


Kevin,

The T 18 bass box referenced in this thread is a lousy bass box made by EV, not a lousy BFM box.

BFM's graphs would be much more believable if they were not hand drawn.
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Kevin Unger

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #10 on: September 27, 2010, 11:42:12 pm »

Art, My mistake.


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Benjamin D. Hill

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #11 on: October 05, 2010, 03:34:53 pm »

+1
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Dan Maki

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2010, 03:47:04 pm »

I have 4 x T18 cabinets loaded with DL18's.  I'm a mobile DJ and these have served me quite well due to their manageable size/weight.  Honestly most of my gigs only require 2 of the subs!
I occasionally do sound hire gigs for bar bands and some rappers too.
I power each pair with a bridged XTi4000.
My mains are 4 x JBL MPRo410 (again I only use 2 for most gigs) powered by a QSC PLX 3402.

After reading this thread and some other opinions out there it would seem that these really aren't that great for subs?  Since the cabinets work well for me (despite their less-than-ideal audio characteristics) what drivers would work well in the cabinets?

I've read of the EVX-180B referenced by the OP and I've also come across references to the Selenium 18SW800. I think the EVX's are more expensive than I can justify for my little operation, but the Selenium's seem reasonable.

Any others?


Thanks

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Art Welter

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2010, 05:09:39 pm »

Dan Maki wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 13:47

I have 4 x T18 cabinets loaded with DL18's.  I'm a mobile DJ and these have served me quite well due to their manageable size/weight.  Honestly most of my gigs only require 2 of the subs!
I occasionally do sound hire gigs for bar bands and some rappers too.
I power each pair with a bridged XTi4000.
My mains are 4 x JBL MPRo410 (again I only use 2 for most gigs) powered by a QSC PLX 3402.

After reading this thread and some other opinions out there it would seem that these really aren't that great for subs?  Since the cabinets work well for me (despite their less-than-ideal audio characteristics) what drivers would work well in the cabinets?

I've read of the EVX-180B referenced by the OP and I've also come across references to the Selenium 18SW800. I think the EVX's are more expensive than I can justify for my little operation, but the Selenium's seem reasonable.

Any others?
Thanks




The complaints have been about the cabinets, putting different speakers in won't change the cabinet design or tuning.

Since the cabinets work well for you, what do you want to change?

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Dan Maki

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #14 on: October 11, 2010, 05:26:28 pm »

I want better sounding bass in a cabinet that is no larger/heavier.  
Not necessarily deeper bass but a little lower is always nice.  I'm happy with the overall dimensions of the T18 and I can lift up by myself when needed.  That's what I am happy about with them, not technically the design..

Alternatively, is there a good smaller cabinet design for the DL18MT's?  Maybe a cab that would suit them for the time being but would also work well with some of the more popular drivers as an upgrade down the road?


I know I'm asking for a kind of "lesser of two evils" thing here and that neither option is really ideal.  Please humor me if you are able/willing!

Thank you
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Art Welter

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #15 on: October 11, 2010, 06:21:23 pm »

Dan Maki wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 15:26

I want better sounding bass in a cabinet that is no larger/heavier.  
Not necessarily deeper bass but a little lower is always nice.  I'm happy with the overall dimensions of the T18 and I can lift up by myself when needed.  That's what I am happy about with them, not technically the design..

Alternatively, is there a good smaller cabinet design for the DL18MT's?  Maybe a cab that would suit them for the time being but would also work well with some of the more popular drivers as an upgrade down the road?


I know I'm asking for a kind of "lesser of two evils" thing here and that neither option is really ideal.  Please humor me if you are able/willing!

Thank you


The T 18 is a very short bass horn that works to about 55 Hz.
You can get a lot of upper bass out of the cabinet, but when the speaker is pushed hard below the horn cut off it will distort, and if hit with enough power below 55 Hz it will tear up.

Simply using that size of a cabinet as a ported design would give more extended low frequency output.
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2010, 12:00:18 am »

Dan Maki wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 16:26

I want better sounding bass in a cabinet that is no larger/heavier.  
Not necessarily deeper bass but a little lower is always nice.  I'm happy with the overall dimensions of the T18 and I can lift up by myself when needed.  That's what I am happy about with them, not technically the design..

Alternatively, is there a good smaller cabinet design for the DL18MT's?  Maybe a cab that would suit them for the time being but would also work well with some of the more popular drivers as an upgrade down the road?


I know I'm asking for a kind of "lesser of two evils" thing here and that neither option is really ideal.  Please humor me if you are able/willing!

Thank you




I called EV and got the T/S parameters for the DL18mt. I then proceeded to build a regular old ported cabinet for those woofs. It sounded about 100 times better, was actually a bit smaller, handled more power, and was lighter than the T18 was to begin with.

WTF was EV thinking when they sold that cab to the public???
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Dan Maki

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2010, 12:26:43 am »

I'd really like to know more about the cabinets you built:)
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2010, 12:56:35 am »

What's to know?!?

I used the factory T/S parameters and plugged it into WinISD which spit out a box volume, and a port size. Wood, saw, paint, nails.... You get the idea.
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Dan Maki

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2010, 09:32:03 am »

Do you have the T/S parameters?
edit nevrmnd


EV DL18MT
------------------------
Fs: 24 Hz
VAS: 580.5 liters (20.5 ft3)
QES: 0.269
QMS: 6.59
QTS: 0.259
RE: 6.0 ohms
SD: 0.130 m2(201 in.2)
MMD: 0.151 kg (0.333 lb)
LE: 2.7 m
HCMS: 0.246 mm/N
RMS: 4.08 mechanical ohms
PE(max): 400 watts
Xmax: 2:5.59 mm (0.22 in.)
Xlim3: 12.7 mm (0.50 in.)
VD: 0.725 liters (0.0256 ft3)
Freq. Res. : 30-3000hz
SPL: 96dB
Coil Size: 2"
Power RMS: 400 Watts
Power Peak: 800 Watts
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Tim Weaver

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #20 on: October 12, 2010, 01:34:59 pm »

Unfortunately I built these subs for a former employer (state of Texas) and I no longer have access to them. They were, however, just the straight up cabinet as recommended by WinISD. I didn't change anything. I think I used dual three-inch ports in each cab iirc. That size port was the most manageable size for my cabinet. 4 inch ports were way too long, and required a bend on the inside plus making the cabinet physically larger than needed.

These make nice single 18 subs. Nothing special, but very nice sounding, and a decent size to move around....
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Art Welter

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #21 on: October 12, 2010, 04:28:24 pm »

Tim Weaver wrote on Mon, 11 October 2010 22:00


WTF was EV thinking when they sold that cab to the public???

They were thinking that a small cabinet that can put out kick drum punch loud enough to be heard over an Ampeg SVT or an Acoustic 360 would be groovy.

Much of the kick drum sound of the disco era was not much lower than the fat snare sound that went with it, if a cabinet could do  60 Hz, good enough.

We want another octave lower now.
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Kevin Unger

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #22 on: October 26, 2010, 12:22:36 am »

Art Welter wrote on Mon, 27 September 2010 07:21


Kevin,

The T 18 bass box referenced in this thread is a lousy bass box made by EV, not a lousy BFM box.

BFM's graphs would be much more believable if they were not hand drawn.


(OT)

Art,

I own and abuse a lot of those "lousy" BFM boxes. I've missed this part of the post as I was in a hurry.

The ROI is great for what I'm doing. As per smaart, the readings are not that far off from Bill's graphs (on the subs atleast, didn't get to test the omnitop line)

/OT
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Art Welter

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Re: Built a new t18 and it sounds like garbage! p.s im a noob -_-
« Reply #23 on: October 26, 2010, 01:33:02 pm »

Kevin Unger wrote on Mon, 25 October 2010 22:22

Art Welter wrote on Mon, 27 September 2010 07:21


Kevin,

The T 18 bass box referenced in this thread is a lousy bass box made by EV, not a lousy BFM box.

BFM's graphs would be much more believable if they were not hand drawn.


(OT)

Art,

I own and abuse a lot of those "lousy" BFM boxes. I've missed this part of the post as I was in a hurry.

The ROI is great for what I'm doing. As per smaart, the readings are not that far off from Bill's graphs (on the subs atleast, didn't get to test the omnitop line)

/OT

Kevin,

When you last swerved the thread a month ago, mistaking the EV T 18 for a BFM, stating:
“ t18 is a tiny sub designed for small rooms and to be corner-loaded. I don't get all the BFM knocking on here,  when all the cabs perform as the graphs show on his site; and allow us diy'rs to build tested, easy to build cabs with a budget in mind.”

I tried to humorously point out nobody had mentioned BFM before you.

As you pointed out, some of BFM’s designs are too small to produce any low bass without being corner loaded in small rooms.
If those designs work for the end user, well and good.

Neither the EV T18, or the BFM T18 would work well for someone wanting much output in the 30-60 octave in other than a small room.

BFM does makes much larger and longer horn designs that are appropriate for large rooms.

As do many others, for free.
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