ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Down

Author Topic: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58  (Read 39340 times)

Dave Potter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 294
    • http://www.dave thebass.com
what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« on: August 24, 2010, 06:38:54 am »

Presumably its the same capsule.
Logged
*************************************************
"When he wakes up, think of something cool.  Tell him I said it" ( Buffy)


www.davethebass.com
www.myspace.com/theswatbanduk

Fred Merkle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 386
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #1 on: August 24, 2010, 06:43:30 am »

Dave Potter wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 06:38

Presumably its the same capsule.


They do not use the same capsule.  The difference is one sounds like it costs less...

Good luck.

-Fred
Logged

Dave Potter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 294
    • http://www.dave thebass.com
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #2 on: August 24, 2010, 07:43:35 am »

Hmmmm.  It doesn't make sense to make 2 capsule of the same size.  Particularly since the raw materials cost peanuts.
Logged
*************************************************
"When he wakes up, think of something cool.  Tell him I said it" ( Buffy)


www.davethebass.com
www.myspace.com/theswatbanduk

Matt Vivlamore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2118
    • http://www.meerkatsound.com
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #3 on: August 24, 2010, 07:50:06 am »

I always see the PG58 used as a Talkback mic when touring companies come into town.

PG58 sounds like butt
SM58 is an industry standard
Beta58 is "better" than a SM58.
Logged
Find us on the web at: meerkatsound.com

I'm using: EV QRx212 over JBL SRX718s(2) with Crown IT's and MRX512m & MRX525 on monitors with XTi's; all controlled by Yamaha LS9-32.  I have a bunch of other stuff too.

Dave Dermont

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2011
    • http://www.geocities.com/livesound101/
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #4 on: August 24, 2010, 08:45:16 am »

Dave Potter wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 07:43

Hmmmm.  It doesn't make sense to make 2 capsule of the same size.  Particularly since the raw materials cost peanuts.


Have you ever considered why there are more than, say, half a dozen microphones being made in the world, and why some cost $35.00 and others cost $3,500.00?
Logged
Dave Dermont - Chief Lizard, LAB Lounge

WARNING: Dates In Calendar May Be Closer Than They Appear

Marlow Wilson

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 533
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #5 on: August 24, 2010, 09:08:41 am »

Dave Potter wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 06:38

Presumably its the same capsule.


I suspect one is made in China while the other is not.  It's hard to keep up with what's been moved over to China, but I can assure it's cheaper to produce microphones their regardless of other product lines made in Mexico or elsewhere.
Logged
I should probably be doing something else right now....

Thom "Fig" Fiegle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 435
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #6 on: August 24, 2010, 10:58:56 am »

Dave Potter wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 06:43

Hmmmm.  It doesn't make sense to make 2 capsule of the same size.  Particularly since the raw materials cost peanuts.


Make microphones do ya?

There is little, if anything, in common between the two models - including the intended market(s).  The capsules are not based within each other's design goals.  Even the ball-grilles are not interchangable.  

Shure made ANOTHER microphone, in a DIFFERENT series (PG instead of say, SM or Beta) at a LOWER COST so that "a Shure sound" could be attained by those who can not afford (or justify the cost, maybe?) of a $100 SM-58.

It IS avialable with a switch and quite useable as a FOH/MON talkback or occasional Djembe pickup.

I bet it ROCKS a karaoke hut!

Osci-later,
Fig
Logged
The easiest thing to do is the thing most easily forgotten.

Brian Jojade

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 532
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #7 on: August 24, 2010, 11:06:24 am »

I've got both.  The SM58 is, well, an SM58.  Everyone knows it for it's workhorse ability and near indestructibility.  It's a good solid mic.

The PG58 is a cheap look alike.  Much worse for handling noise, not as tough, etc.  It's a $50 mic versus a $100 mic.  In the audio market, you get what you pay for.
Logged
---------------------------------------------
Brian Jojade
HappyMac Digital Electronics

http://www.happymacshop.com

---------------------------------------------

Tony "T" Tissot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3902
    • http://www.4dbsound.com
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #8 on: August 24, 2010, 11:09:08 am »

What's the difference?

It isn't as annoying when PGs are destroyed by punk bands acting like animals.
Logged
MNGS
ProSoundWeb - Home of 50,000 audio professionals - and two or three curmudgeonly SOBs.

Dave Potter

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 294
    • http://www.dave thebass.com
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #9 on: August 24, 2010, 01:32:21 pm »

Quote:

Have you ever considered why there are more than, say, half a dozen microphones being made in the world, and why some cost $35.00 and others cost $3,500.00?

Well, I'm not a full time pro sound man.  What I AM is a full time professional Manufacturing Engineer so this is pretty much my area.
China isn't poor quality because they make things badly.  China makes poor quality because they cut corners in their processes and materials whenever they think they can get away with it (although I'm not sure that they actually think about it).  If they use the right materials (verified) and are held to correct processes with the same design then what you get is the identical product for less money.  So a PG isn't a PG just because its Chinese.

Are there any dynamic mics that cost $3,500?  No.  There are condenser mics for that money, but they are completely different.  A dynamic mic is:- a diaphragm, a coil of wire, a magnet a plastic moulding to put it in, a hand grip, a basket .  In he case of the SM series a transformer.  

Once you have the processes sorted (they've been making the unidyne for decades) wire is just wire.  Its cheaper in bulk.  Moldings are just moldings.  It is not uncommon for companies to design exactly the same parts into cheaper products.  In some companies I've worked for, they built exactly the same product but disabled the higher functions.

I'm not arguing that they ARE the same (hence the question), just saying that in terms of manufacturing cost, it would be possible.  

Anyway ..... I've no intention of owning one.
Logged
*************************************************
"When he wakes up, think of something cool.  Tell him I said it" ( Buffy)


www.davethebass.com
www.myspace.com/theswatbanduk

Dick Rees

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 6592
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #10 on: August 24, 2010, 01:36:52 pm »

Dave Potter wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 05:38

Presumably its the same capsule.



I think it's a societal thing:

PG for the younger set
SM for the weird
Logged
 Neo-Luddite, Rocket Surgeon
"Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain."

Fred Merkle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 386
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #11 on: August 24, 2010, 02:23:14 pm »

Dave Potter wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 13:32

Well, I'm not a full time pro sound man.  What I AM is a full time professional Manufacturing Engineer so this is pretty much my area.



Amusingly enough, EE is my area.

Quote:

China isn't poor quality because they make things badly.  China makes poor quality because they cut corners in their processes and materials whenever they think they can get away with it (although I'm not sure that they actually think about it).  If they use the right materials (verified) and are held to correct processes with the same design then what you get is the identical product for less money.



While this is getting off-topic, I just wanted to say that I usually see this as a failure of design or process.  Chinese manufacturing is reasonably mature--and in many cases more advanced than stateside.  I usually find that quality failures are due to a design that is either not robust enough to handle operator variability or that the chosen vendor does not have the process capability to manufacture what is asked.

Quote:

So a PG isn't a PG just because its Chinese.


A PG58 is a PG58 because it was designed to cost less to manufacture and to not sound better than an SM58.

Quote:

A dynamic mic is:- a diaphragm, a coil of wire, a magnet a plastic moulding to put it in, a hand grip, a basket .  In he case of the SM series a transformer.


A condenser microphone is not all that much more complicated: a diaphragm, a backplate, a simple impedance conversion circuit, and a chassis.  (Also, FWIW, I can think of very few dynamic microphones on the market that don't use a transformer.)

Quote:

Once you have the processes sorted (they've been making the unidyne for decades) wire is just wire.  Its cheaper in bulk.  Moldings are just moldings.  It is not uncommon for companies to design exactly the same parts into cheaper products.  In some companies I've worked for, they built exactly the same product but disabled the higher functions.


And Shure is no different in these regards.  Any designer worth his/her salt reuses design components when they meet the design requirements.  It's not as easy as you'd imagine to pull money out of a dynamic microphone design like the 58.  Sometimes starting mostly over is the best way to keep unit cost down.

Quote:

I'm not arguing that they ARE the same (hence the question), just saying that in terms of manufacturing cost, it would be possible.


I don't know how many times I have to say they are different before you believe me.  Smile  A PG58 would probably cost more were it a derivative of the SM58.

Quote:

Anyway ..... I've no intention of owning one.


So why the post?

Have fun.

-Fred
Logged

Jeff Babcock

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2313
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2010, 04:46:04 pm »

Matt Vivlamore wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 07:50


Beta58 is "better" than a SM58.


I'd be inclined to disagree with that as a generalized statement.

Mike {AB} Butler

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
    • http://www.3alchemy.com
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #13 on: August 24, 2010, 05:11:33 pm »

Jeff Babcock wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 16:46

Matt Vivlamore wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 07:50


Beta58 is "better" than a SM58.


I'd be inclined to disagree with that as a generalized statement.


Jeff,
Just curious, what is it that you disagree with in that statement? I would take a Beta over an SM anyday.. even with the hyped "presence" issue in the upper mids..
Regards,
Logged
Mike Butler,
Principal, Technology and Operations,
Dascott Technologies, LLC

Thom "Fig" Fiegle

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 435
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #14 on: August 24, 2010, 05:33:07 pm »

Mike {AB} Butler wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 16:11

Jeff Babcock wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 16:46

Matt Vivlamore wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 07:50


Beta58 is "better" than a SM58.


I'd be inclined to disagree with that as a generalized statement.


Jeff,
Just curious, what is it that you disagree with in that statement? I would take a Beta over an SM anyday.. even with the hyped "presence" issue in the upper mids..
Regards,


Horses for courses, Mike.  They are different - no question, but better is in the ear of the beholder.

When I'm using a single wedge on a straight mic stand, I prefer the cardiod pattern of the SM.  When I get a mumbler of a singer, the presence peak and extended high freq response of Beta suits.  If the dude can't stay on the mic (within the polar pattern) - back to the SM.

Its like saying a Phillips head screwdriver is better than a flat head... well, it IS for adjusting Phillips heads screws!
Logged
The easiest thing to do is the thing most easily forgotten.

Tony "T" Tissot

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3902
    • http://www.4dbsound.com
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #15 on: August 24, 2010, 06:03:39 pm »

Dick Rees wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 10:36

PG for the younger set
SM for the weird

The mind works in strange ways.
Logged
MNGS
ProSoundWeb - Home of 50,000 audio professionals - and two or three curmudgeonly SOBs.

Bennett Prescott

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 8924
    • http://www.adraudio.com
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #16 on: August 24, 2010, 08:40:54 pm »

The difference is,
the PG58 sucks.

It is cheaper because they don't have to put any good in it.

Good is expensive.
Logged
-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

Tommy Stone

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 125
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #17 on: August 24, 2010, 10:23:37 pm »

The PG means Poor Guys mic and the SM means Smart Man's mic.

Logged

Dave Rickard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2903
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 10:24:42 pm »

Thom "Fig" Fiegle wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 08:58

Osci-later,
Fig

Clever.
Logged
Dave
Yorkville dealer

"The wrong piece of gear, at the right price, is still the wrong piece of gear."

"If you don't have good stuff at each end of the signal chain, (mics and speakers) what you use in between is just turd polish."--Dave Dermont

Marvin Chin

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3
Re: what's the difference between SM58 and PG58
« Reply #19 on: August 25, 2010, 01:08:00 pm »

Tommy Stone wrote on Tue, 24 August 2010 21:23

The PG means Poor Guys mic and the SM means Smart Man's mic.  



PG = Poor Guy's mic, that's for sure.
But I have to say, AFTER EQing, compression, etc, I can't tell much difference between the PG and SM Wink
The biggest difference is the handling noise, as someone has noted already; PG's handling noise is pretty brutal, and I think this is definitely where you get what you pay for...
Logged
Pages: 1 2 [All]   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.171 seconds with 20 queries.