ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Down

Author Topic: What do you Bi-amp with?  (Read 9750 times)

Ian Coughlin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
What do you Bi-amp with?
« on: August 20, 2010, 01:45:46 pm »

Recently I've been debating my SRX715's.  In my research I have noticed that there aren't any amps in the same range (iTech, PL3's, etc.) that would meet the power requirements for the HF and LF selection of any speaker.  Example I have SRX715's, I would need an iTech 6000 for the LF and a XTi1000 for the HF selection.  I don't know if its because I'm anal and like matching amps or the increased functionality of and iTech over an XTi. It bothers me that I can't have an iTech power my HF (I know I can get an IT4000 and limit the RMS but that wouldn't be a rational decision).  Why don't any of these companies make a lower powered amp in their "flagship" series amp lines?
Logged

RYAN LOUDMUSIC JENKINS

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2639
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #1 on: August 20, 2010, 02:08:23 pm »

I think that the IT4000 or even IT6000 IS a rational decision for all frequency bands, including your highs.  Your HF drivers/horns are so efficient that you would almost never get to the program rating of the drivers anyways because it would be way too loud.  I use Camco Vortex 6 amp on all the frequency bands and I have never ever had an issue.  Thats about 1350 watts available to the HF drivers and my drivers are only rated at 80 Watts RMS.  I have my limiters set for 160 watts and I have never seen the limit light flicker on my DSP.

As far as the manufacturers making lower power versions of their flagship amps, I don't think that there would be enough of a cost difference to the end user to warrant making the amps less powerful when the bigger amps work just fine for the lower power applications.
Logged
Ryan Jenkins
"Two days until the end of when I don't know what to think.  Three days until I start the cycle all over again!"

Please visit my website at http://www.murphygirl.com

Tom Reid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7412
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #2 on: August 20, 2010, 02:09:25 pm »

Ian Coughlin wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 12:45

Recently I've been debating my SRX715's.  In my research I have noticed that there aren't any amps in the same range (iTech, PL3's, etc.) that would meet the power requirements for the HF and LF selection of any speaker.  Example I have SRX715's, I would need an iTech 6000 for the LF and a XTi1000 for the HF selection.  I don't know if its because I'm anal and like matching amps or the increased functionality of and iTech over an XTi. It bothers me that I can't have an iTech power my HF (I know I can get an IT4000 and limit the RMS but that wouldn't be a rational decision).  Why don't any of these companies make a lower powered amp in their "flagship" series amp lines?


I bi-amp with XTIs.  It get's a little tricky, even with internal DSPs as the XTIs all have a different gain.
I run my SRX 725s off an XTI6000 for mids,and XTI1000 for tops.  
If you look at the way Crown and JBL setup the DSP parameters for XTI and Itech, they suggest using (for example) 1/2 and IT 4000 for mids, the other for highs.  This solves the gain issue as the DSP preset programs the correct gain for each.  It also indicates that you 'can' use an IT4000 for SRX horns, just be gentle!

As far as using an XTI1000 for tops, the amp runs at an 8 ohm load and never passes %60 input/output (in my situation).  The amp doesn't work that hard, the output is clean, and the sound is so much better than the padded passive crossover.

ymmv.
Logged
tom

What does Buddha do on his day off?

Tim Brackett

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 281
    • http://mountainvalleyproductionsystems.com
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #3 on: August 20, 2010, 04:51:56 pm »

I bi-amp my VRX boxes, 2/side, with an XTi1000 for the highs and an iT6000 for the lows.  I just took the gain difference in account an made it up in the bandpass gain of the crossover.  It is just not worth 3 times the cost and several more pounds to me to have the amps match.  The XTi does great on the highs and is the last amp in my rig I have to watch when pushing the system.
Logged

Matt Vivlamore

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2118
    • http://www.meerkatsound.com
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2010, 04:54:38 pm »

While I don't use the SRX tops, I plan on Bi-Amping my QRx212s with 2 IT4000s.  Just incase one of the IT amps goes down, I can flip a few switches & settings and run the night in Passive for the show.
Logged
Find us on the web at: meerkatsound.com

I'm using: EV QRx212 over JBL SRX718s(2) with Crown IT's and MRX512m & MRX525 on monitors with XTi's; all controlled by Yamaha LS9-32.  I have a bunch of other stuff too.

Ian Coughlin

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 122
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #5 on: August 21, 2010, 02:24:39 pm »

Good input from all.  I like the idea of having redundancy, going with two iTechs.  I also like the feasibility of an XTi1000 at the moment and knowing that it can "comfortably" power the HF sections of any JBL box that i own or plan on upgrading to (SRX/VRX).

As far as processing goes, do you use the amps internal DSPs and daisy chain them or do you have a processor (DR260, etc.) in the mix?  Or use a mix of both?
Logged

Silas Pradetto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3047
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2010, 07:03:58 am »

Tim Brackett wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 16:51

I bi-amp my VRX boxes, 2/side, with an XTi1000 for the highs and an iT6000 for the lows.  I just took the gain difference in account an made it up in the bandpass gain of the crossover.  It is just not worth 3 times the cost and several more pounds to me to have the amps match.  The XTi does great on the highs and is the last amp in my rig I have to watch when pushing the system.


What everyone is forgetting is that different DSP amps have different latencies that need to be compensated for in the phase alignment of the crossover. I don't think the XTi latency is published but the Itech is.

In comparison to the feature set of an Itech, the XTis appear to be a heap of garbage, and usually sound like it too...

And if you use a DSP amp with an external DSP then you're missing the point. With possibly the exception of using the AES digital inputs on the Itechs to avoid the extra AD/DA conversion.
Logged

Bob Josjor

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 165
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #7 on: August 22, 2010, 11:34:24 am »

Tom Reid wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 12:09

   

I bi-amp with XTIs.  It get's a little tricky, even with internal DSPs as the XTIs all have a different gain.



You know, occassionally I get a little crap for having all Peavey amps in my rig, but I think most people would have to agree that at least Peavey has the forethought to make ALL their amplifiers with the same gain.  It sure makes things a lot easier and makes a helluva lot more sense.
Logged
Why did I drink all the ingredients for vomit?

Tom Reid

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 7412
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #8 on: August 22, 2010, 11:55:47 am »

Silas Pradetto wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 06:03

Tim Brackett wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 16:51

I bi-amp my VRX boxes, 2/side, with an XTi1000 for the highs and an iT6000 for the lows.  I just took the gain difference in account an made it up in the bandpass gain of the crossover.  It is just not worth 3 times the cost and several more pounds to me to have the amps match.  The XTi does great on the highs and is the last amp in my rig I have to watch when pushing the system.


What everyone is forgetting is that different DSP amps have different latencies that need to be compensated for in the phase alignment of the crossover. I don't think the XTi latency is published but the Itech is.

In comparison to the feature set of an Itech, the XTis appear to be a heap of garbage, and usually sound like it too...

And if you use a DSP amp with an external DSP then you're missing the point. With possibly the exception of using the AES digital inputs on the Itechs to avoid the extra AD/DA conversion.


Johnny scrimped and saved for 2 years to buy his first XTI.
He's been longing for an ITECH but just can't get the cash together.
He's so proud of his first purchase that he made a new account on PSW to talk with real people about his amp.
Then he saw Silas post telling him that his new purchase is garbage.
Four years back in therapy for Johnny.

When one has a point they're trying to get across, they sound more intelligent if they don't bash things.
Logged
tom

What does Buddha do on his day off?

Silas Pradetto

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3047
Re: What do you Bi-amp with?
« Reply #9 on: August 23, 2010, 03:22:36 pm »

Tom Reid wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 11:55

Silas Pradetto wrote on Sun, 22 August 2010 06:03

Tim Brackett wrote on Fri, 20 August 2010 16:51

I bi-amp my VRX boxes, 2/side, with an XTi1000 for the highs and an iT6000 for the lows.  I just took the gain difference in account an made it up in the bandpass gain of the crossover.  It is just not worth 3 times the cost and several more pounds to me to have the amps match.  The XTi does great on the highs and is the last amp in my rig I have to watch when pushing the system.


What everyone is forgetting is that different DSP amps have different latencies that need to be compensated for in the phase alignment of the crossover. I don't think the XTi latency is published but the Itech is.

In comparison to the feature set of an Itech, the XTis appear to be a heap of garbage, and usually sound like it too...

And if you use a DSP amp with an external DSP then you're missing the point. With possibly the exception of using the AES digital inputs on the Itechs to avoid the extra AD/DA conversion.


Johnny scrimped and saved for 2 years to buy his first XTI.
He's been longing for an ITECH but just can't get the cash together.
He's so proud of his first purchase that he made a new account on PSW to talk with real people about his amp.
Then he saw Silas post telling him that his new purchase is garbage.
Four years back in therapy for Johnny.

When one has a point they're trying to get across, they sound more intelligent if they don't bash things.


Maybe I was getting a bit grumpy after being awake for 25 hours at a really tough gig Laughing

Anyhow, XTis have their place, but running them with Itechs really is a bad idea due to the delay problems.

Also, if you compare the feature set of the two amps, it will in fact seem like the XTi is severely lacking, just like I said as my grumpy self.

I am always extremely surprised at the number of people that buy DSP amps and then run them with their external DSP anyway. I'm not saying that anyone in this thread is doing it, but don't these people realize that they are experiencing a severe sound quality hit when they do this?

And, I don't see the problem using Itechs to power HF drivers at all. I routinely biamp cabinets with one Itech per, and it makes lots of sense. XTis don't have the capability to be deployed and managed in any sort of large numbers (like more than 1 rack full) because they don't have Ethernet.

Also consider that your 75 watt HF driver may be able to withstand a 500 watt peak with no issue--there usually isn't an excursion problem like with woofers because of the higher frequency.

I think it was Sound Image that uses Itech 8000s on everything, even the HF in their wedges.

I'll try to be happier after getting my 23 hours of sleep Laughing
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3   Go Up
 

Page created in 0.027 seconds with 21 queries.