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[Guy Johnson]

It looks like it may be useful for me to buy a pair of these as a lighter system for use in some awkward venues, where less outright power is needed. I'm also needing another system, and often I find that The Female Contingent -- those that hire me for weddings, parties and conferences -- they seem to dislike even systems that are only 16" wide and black (have you any grey ones?)  . . .  
More choice and more systems out will be good. I have subs to use when the Bose's own subs will not be enough, BTW.

So, apart from the inevitable Bose Haters here, I have some questions...

The Mk IIs seem much pricier, and the only difference I can see seems to be less inputs and EQ with the Mk IIs! Same power, same speaker elements, less inputs and EQ. Hmmm ... Does Not Compute.
Can't say I heard any difference with a system I heard with a mix of the Mk I and Mk II as L&R FOH.
Seems the only benefit of the Mk II is the much narrower amp/stand, so the unit can be placed a lot closer to a wall if needed, without the need for making adaptors (Gasps of Horror form Bose Purists).

This brings me neatly to the second point: combing. In narrower venues, you'd get combing off the walls, unless the radiators are right next to said walls, due to the wide dispersion of these units. But, in reality, you get this anyway away from horn's directivity: the lower frequencies off most systems in narrow rooms will tend to reflect of the walls. So, am I being too concerned in this instance of possible combing?

Of course, I could use the EUs 30-day undamaged-and-in-original-packing return & money-back thing, but that's a hassle I'd rather do without.

Thanks in advance for any suggestions based on experience with these units.

Guy

[Ivan Beaver]

I would first ask myself-what am I REALLY wanting this loudspeaker for?

Is is just the loudspeaker itself?  or the "system"?  Meaning amps/mixer etc?

If you want to use the rest of your regular system, then look at the Bose MA12 (if you want to stick with Bose).  OR some of the offerings from other companies in the similar style cabinets.

TOA-Community and others make "line sources" that are slinder-have the same characteristics and so forth.  Some sound better than the Bose products.

Regarding reflections off of walls-yes you have that with any loudspeaker once the freq get below where the horn has control.

Hover people don't complain as much about the combfiltering in the lower freq because it does not affect the vocal intelligability.

When it is in the vocal range you will often end up with a situation in which people say they can't "hear" ther person-but in reality they are saying they can't UNDERSTAND what the person is saying.

Being loud enough is one thing-being clear enough is quite another.  Look at a lot of stadium systems that are loud enough-but you can't tell what language is being spoken.  Or a low Q system in a reverberant space.

Pattern control (horns) can be your friend-and large horns can be your best friend.

[Guy Johnson]

Thanks for that, Ivan. Yes, the speakers themselves for the following reasons:

~Lightweight, easy get-in and get-out
~Almost invisible, compared with most other offerings—and easily covered/disguised, for the 'arty'/female/fussy/feng-****-ing shui/hippy-dippy types who often seem to employ me...
~Customers and many musos LOVE the word Bose in my experience -- a good selling-point
~I have heard them and they are capable of great sound in the right environment... and there are quite a few of those around.

I also want to try one slung horizontally in front, as a monitor, of 3 or 4 singers (who only want one mix), and also to try one slung horizontally over and in front of a band as FOH, where you need good sound very close in, and ceiling reflections won't be a problem. I'm getting the feeling that some lateral (sic) thinking is needed in many venues. All this, by the way is assuming proper supports and cabling for the things in a sideways mode.

If you have any first-hand recommendations of other similar systems that sound better than Bose, especially ones with narrower dispersions than the Bose offering, I'd love to hear of them!

[Ivan Beaver]

Guy Johnson wrote on Sat, 16 October 2010 11:03

Thanks for that, Ivan. Yes, the speakers themselves for the following reasons: ~Lightweight, easy get-in and get-out ~Almost invisible, compared with most other offerings—and easily covered/disguised, for the 'arty'/female/fussy/feng-****-ing shui/hippy-dippy types who often seem to employ me... ~Customers and many musos LOVE the word Bose in my experience -- a good selling-point ~I have heard them and they are capable of great sound in the right environment... and there are quite a few of those around. I also want to try one slung horizontally in front, as a monitor, of 3 or 4 singers (who only want one mix), and also to try one slung horizontally over and in front of a band as FOH, where you need good sound very close in, and ceiling reflections won't be a problem. I'm getting the feeling that some lateral (sic) thinking is needed in many venues. All this, by the way is assuming proper supports and cabling for the things in a sideways mode. If you have any first-hand recommendations of other similar systems that sound better than Bose, especially ones with narrower dispersions than the Bose offering, I'd love to hear of them!

In the situation in which a line source type loudspeaker is the right choice-and where we used to use the Bose MA12, we now use the TOA http://www.toaelectronics.com/spk0028.asp

You will not be happy with one of those placed horizontally for a monitor.

The WHOLE concept of a line source (array) is to narrow the vertical coverage so  you do not energize the areas above or below the loudspeaker.  That means reduced coverage.

So if you put them on their sides-you will have a hot spot in the middle of the line-and greatly reduced level on the ends.

[Scott Helmke (Scodiddly)]

I've only heard the K-Array stick in a shop demo, but we were all very impressed.  Worth looking into, in my opinion.

[Iain_Macdonald]

Guy,

If you are doing singer-songwriters, and comedians etc in a  lounge bar, have a look at the Fishman SA220. JHS distribute in the UK. For something a bit heavier duty, where you would be in attendance, the JBL CBT array columns.

http://www.fishman.com/products/solo_performance_systems.asp

http://www.fishman.com/products/details.asp?id=106

Iain.

[Caleb Dick]

I just demo'ed the Innovox SLA 10.1 for a similar situation, and with a sub sounded nice.  It isn't loud, the low mids are light, but it does have a ribbon HF.  

[Eric Wong!]

Caleb Dick wrote on Sat, 16 October 2010 17:39

I just demo'ed the Innovox SLA 10.1 for a similar situation, and with a sub sounded nice.  It isn't loud, the low mids are light, but it does have a ribbon HF.

Dead link. Try this: http://www.innovoxaudio.com/pdf/sla-10-1-product-data-sheet. pdf

Not to hijack but very interesting thread...  I've always wanted some kind of small line array for my PA system for many of the reasons the OP wanted (I do lots of weddings too). My only real experience with a true line source are my Magneplanar home speakers (can I say that in here?   )

[Guy Johnson]

Interesting. The TOA seems to be install-oriented, the Fishman looks good, but if going for a line it might as well be longer ...

The K-Array 200s looks great, but it's nearly twice the cost of the Bose. Although it undoubtably looks a better system, is the extra investment going to earn me any more money? Needs More Thought.

Having done some more research it seems only the Bose L1 Classic is what I'm after, 3Db more headroom and narrower dispersion, than the L1 models one and two.

In the UK it may be difficult to get some of the smaller US products suggested.

The thread has been moved from the LAB part ... it seemed more relevant there, maybe I mis-interpret the distinctions?

Thanks again for your input and PMs