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Author Topic: Danley Review  (Read 28960 times)

Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #20 on: July 20, 2010, 12:20:54 pm »

All of the convenience  factors are things that add cost to the cabinet and not everybody needs them, but if they are a stock item-eveybody has to pay for them.  Danley has tried to provide the basic "devices" to transport the cabinet.

Most concert systems are not carried up stairs. ALthough I have done more than my share of carrying a full rig up steps Mad .

A handle or two could be added at the bottom front of the box without affecting the horn flare if you wanted to do it yourself.

Of course you could always just tip the cabinet a little more and let the guy on the bottom grab the wheels.  That would probably make it easier on the guy on the top also.

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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Tom Danley

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #21 on: July 20, 2010, 12:38:55 pm »

Hi Leon
In an earlier post, in all caps as I recall, you asked “how do they do that?” and now commented “Understanding how speakers work is valuable” and the perceived sound vs what your used to.

I should have replied to your first question but I was very busy on something and sometimes it’s hard to shift gears.   I will take a  shot at that now.

We hear in stereo, in fact more than that, we can hear height and depth as well as left and right, we hear in 3d.

When we take one microphone and record or measure, we record the pressure information from one point in space.  

If you put a speaker on a stick outdoors and play a voice through it and close your eyes, you can normally easily hear not just what direction it is but how far away it is also.     Some speakers radiate “something” which makes them easy to identify in depth, others less so.    

In the last 12 year I have been working on these horns, I found that the closer they became to one single source, the more difficult it was to hear how far away the speaker was with your eyes closed.

The aural clues that identify the “depth” have to do with how the sources radiate in space and NOT what you measure with a single microphone from one point.  

So one could say my goal has been to make a multi-way speaker which radiated as a single source in time and space.  

To answer “how do they do that”, it’s simple looking back on it.
All you have to do is make sure that the sources are about a quarter wavelength or less apart where they are to combine with each other or an adjacent frequency range.  This means, like closely spaced subwoofers, they will combine coherently into an acoustic point source and radiate equally in all directions.
 
Then, if you don’t radiation in all directions but you also want the frequency response NOT to change with distance, then you want a constant directivity radiation.   I chose the CD horn as being only one of very few ways to accomplish the desired CD effect.
A horn has a “high pass” filter effect related to how fast the horn path is expanding, for example a 30 hz horn has to expand at a rate where it doubles it’s area every two feet or so.  

If you look at a conical horn, one can see that the area expands very quickly at the throat and slows as you progress towards the mouth. This means the horn has a different “low corner” depending where one taps into it.  Thus, the horn is divided up into regions where the highs, mids and lows couple into it.

If you look at the picture Ivan posted, you can see how this is done.  
The high frequency driver is at the center and radiates an expanding spherical segment wave front into the horn.    As the frequency falls, it crosses over into the mid driver who’s energy is introduced into the horn through the four smallest holes at the rear.  The four sources add together into one point source and at the frequency they combine with the high driver are all less than a quarter wavelength apart.   As you can see, the hf driver is behind the mid driver.  The low frequency drivers are next and occupy a larger dimensions.

In time, the signal emerges first from a high pass filter, then from the low pass filter.   By using a non-traditional crossover and the physical offset in that position, one can produce a passive crossover that doesn’t have the phase shift normally present.  
The combination of driving the horn at a small dimension makes the beam width constant through crossover, no lobes or nulls anywhere and fixing the time, means that most of the Synergy horns will reproduce a square wave anywhere form good to fair, over a broad band, not particularly dependant on position in the pattern.  
If you look at the CLF file for the SM-60, you will see it has a very consistent pattern.  As a result of being “CD” its spectral balance doesn’t change with distance or position while in the pattern.
So how does that sound?

Imagine you set off a large fire cracker, it is a short energetic  impulsive signal that has a wide frequency spectrum.   Imagine you recorded it and were able to spread that out by spectrum, divided into octaves and each octave delayed by a different amount, with the lows delayed the longest.    

This is what speakers generally do, they have an “all pass” response in time and occupy different places in time depending on frequency.      
The drivers on most speakers are also too far apart to combine coherently so if you look at a simple polar plot, one finds plenty of lobes and nulls in many directions and I believe these are in part what give the speaker a depth identity as well as excite he reverberant field (reflected sounds that compete with the direct sound).  The goal with the directivity is to direct the sound to where the people are to minimize the reverberant field.
Reproduce,  that firecracker with these issues and it will still sound like a fire cracker but now it is dynamically different, much subdued.  
Now, if you look up the work by a hero of mine Dick Heyser and Time Delay Spectrometry, you will find the path that lead to your SM-60.

What you hear is one of my latest attempts to make a real wide band constant directivity acoustic point source.    Fwiw, if you are inclined to try this, set the sm-60’s up in your living room and try your favorite recordings and old ones.   That lack of depth identity makes for a much stronger stereo image than most hifi speakers can produce and the pattern control indoors is helpful.  
For fun, try the fireworks recording at the bottom of the download page.  This was from a couple years ago, I have a new one to put up from this year but it’s not there yet.

Anyway, I hope our pricing also makes them attractive relative to what they do, the mantle “you just can’t pay more, for sound this good” is taken so we went a different way.  I am glad you’re enjoying the SM-60’s and subs, have fun and good music.
Best,
Tom Danley
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leon garrity

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #22 on: July 20, 2010, 01:47:28 pm »

Hello Ivan,

many thanks for the reply unfortunatly i won't be cutting into these boxes as that would be the equivalent of drawing a moustache on the Mona Lisa.(LOL) i will just be carrying them with the wheels.I Kinda see the whole Danley thing as a big family and im proud to be part of it.You should all commend yourselves for the very openness and help in explaining your product,that is rareity in major manufacturers  but one which assures a confidence.
I cant put figures down as im no scientist  just an ordinary joe singer but for years i had a sound in my head that i wanted from a system, going through rig to rig i found different aspects i liked but not a complete package.

EAW sounded loud and full but needed huge power to get the best,also on some music it couldn,t cut it IMO.My experience with EAW is the tops were gorgeuos sounding but the subs were sloppy not tight.
D&B sounded fantastic and as a complete package of plug and play,simple.The downsides where it sounded so processed there was no life,music in my opinion should sound good but with a rawness in energy.Also there subs were horredous to use as there was so much bleed onto the stage no matter how you EQ'd them,the downside is that you really needed to purchase the D&B amps to run it.
Turbosound was my fave in my time as a singer bottom end was tight and sounded full,the tops were great vocally.Not bad for a design years old.
Then by chance i read an article on the Net over the TH115 which made my ears stand up, my dilemma was it just another company spowting hype and figures or could this be the shangri la of speakers?????????
single 15" sub performing that well impossible!!!!!!!!!
Top boxes being that good,clear .NOT MUCH PROCESSING!!!! It has to be impossible!!!!!!!!

So i carried on reading the reviews and i knew that i had  hear them,at one point i was off on a plane from the UK to poland to hear Piotro's boxes,all my friends said your freaking crazy!!!!!!
So with gut instinct i bought these boxes and you know what in my opinion there aint boxes to touch them sonicaly,musicaly i have to say my friends Meyers do sound good but still dont sound as nice and there 256LBS per box!!!!!!!!! 10 times the size Keep them.
The nicest sounding rig i heard until now was an artistes L'Accoustics rig when my friend did follow spot for him but IMO still not as nice.One thing Danley provides you with is a full package.I fly the boxes 10ft high and theres no hole from top to sub,The SM60 just sings its ass off,never gets sharp in tone and just oozes quality.Since using these boxes the audience have listened more even when ive played very loud,the SH100 for its size should not do what it does for a single 8" Measuring only 10" deep.It astounds me everytime i turn it on.The TH115 scares me but in a buzzing way,my opinion off bass was this it was there just to give some oomph to the sound,never would i thought that bass could do what it does, Growl and Purr then knock your chest rumble your guts!!!!!!!
What i love is this that no one in my field has heard of Danley in the UK but when they've heard it the look of disbelief is a picture.I have never been as proud to use boxes as i do now with the Danley's.
Anyone who is thinking SM60???????? should i or not,well considering that i reckon if EAW or any other mainstream had created this box then you would be paying 2 to 3 times as much which in its self is an added bonus but with one more great addition these boxes are simply amazing.
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Frederik Rosenkjær

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #23 on: July 20, 2010, 03:10:27 pm »

Tom Danley wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 17:38


If you look at the CLF file for the SM-60



I would love to see the CLF file for the SM60, but I can't find it anywhere?
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leon garrity

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #24 on: July 20, 2010, 05:25:24 pm »

Well Folks,

I did what Tom said to try the SM60 in the house as conventional Hi-Fi speakers and all i can say is WOW!!!!!!!!!
I have never heard anything like it,i tried various different types of music from rock,pop,jazz to John Williams Star Wars theme tune CD and my fave Neil Diamond.There aint just a stereo image which is lush but a very sincere 3D feel to all genres.It never gets bright or offensive,it stays beautiful and engrossing making you want to listen to the source material.
I did what Tom suggested and to listen with closed eyes,now ive never in my life experienced that,could i hell tell where the sound was coming from or how far the boxes were away from me????????????????? it took something to the next level i stood there walking too and fro and when i thought they were in front of me ,i opened my eyes and no they weren,t.
Then i played the fireworks download and played it.WOW that is scary espesh when your eyes are closed,you would swear that you were in a field watching rockets.Now thats amazing.
Anyone who wants some Danleys to use but cant stretch to the SH50/60 then these would be pure magic,playing the Star wars soundtrack took me back to my first ever visit to the cinema in 1977.In my home cinema i use Bower and Wilkins,a british speaker and they are in their own right fantastic but these speakers take something to the stratosphere.I know it seems that all i say is good words but with nearly 20 years as a working musiscian i haven't heard anything as good,so looking forward to the day i get the SH50 or 60's.Meanwhile those people thinking of getting some Danley SM60 jump in YOU WILL NOT BE DISAPPOINTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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leon garrity

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #25 on: July 20, 2010, 06:02:09 pm »

Hi Frederick,

you need to hear the SM60 mate,its amazing.
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #26 on: July 20, 2010, 06:09:15 pm »

Frederik Rosenkj
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

Art Welter

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #27 on: July 20, 2010, 06:33:51 pm »

Ivan Beaver wrote on Tue, 20 July 2010 16:09

Frederik Rosenkj
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Ivan Beaver

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #28 on: July 20, 2010, 06:48:51 pm »

You got me there Embarassed .  I just "assumed"-you know what happens when you do that.

I have the files for a single-a double and a 3 wide array.  But I don't think I can attach files here.

I can send them out as an attachment to a regular Email-or wait untill he gets back.

Sorry for jumping the gun-so to speak.
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For every complicated question-there is a simple- easy to understand WRONG answer.

Can I have some more talent in the monitors--PLEASE?

Ivan Beaver
dB Audio & Video Inc.
Danley Sound Labs

leon garrity

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Re: Danley Review
« Reply #29 on: July 28, 2010, 07:59:00 pm »



Hello,

just wondered if anyone could guide me as to why one SM60f
speaker still keeps going off when pushed a little,its the same box all the time.Gigged tonight and still keeps doing it,checked cables all on neutrick speak on connectors,wired with van damme tour grade cable,checked amp,connectors.So am puzzled??????????? reguards Leon
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