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[Matt Jarema]

Hey all, I play a bar every other week that has a system installed.  It turns out that no one ever uses the system because it sounds really bad.  Usually acts just bring their own PA because they know what to expect. We bring our own as well. The acts booked at this bar are mainly acoustic duos and small bands.  The house system consists of the following:
14 channel Yamaha powered mixer 1000w mixer
2 Technomad speakers mounted in the corners
2 Samson subs that have a crossover to run the tops

Now, the mixer is 500 per side which runs one sub and one Technomad top.  First of all, I feel subs are not needed because it's a very small space with a lot of wood (wood floors, lots of wood trim etc).  An acoustic guitar nightmare w/ subs.  Second, the tops are not being crossed over properly.  Music through an i-pod sounds pretty bad.  Third, no matter how the mixer is set, or how much a person trys to tweak it, it sounds as if the singer is singing through a megaphone.  Lastly, unless you have a powered monitor, there is no way to hear yourself accurately.

This situation is a mess for people who just want to bring minimal gear and use the house system.  We always bring our own PA and are set-up/playing in 25 minute.  It beats trying to deal w/ this mess.

I spoke with the bar owner about the situation.  The person who did/advised the install is a working sound pro.  Personally, I just don't get it.  I've done some research on the Technomads and they seem to be quality speakers.  In this situation, they almost sound like they're blown. I'd like to make some suggestions and would really like to help out the owner but at the same time, I don't want to piss anyone off.  Particularly the sound guy who is a regular customer.   Any thoughts on what to suggest?   I think the first step is getting rid of the subs and possibly trying some new/different speakers.  Any other suggestions are greatly appreciated.

[Ivan Beaver]

The first step is to see if all the components are working properly.  Nothing else matters if they aren't.

I have never used any of the components mentioned-so have no opinion on them.

If everybody is bringing in their own system-then why do they need a sound guy?

Does he think the installed system is fine?  If so, then maybe he can operate it so that it sounds good/acceptable.

I would start there.

If he can't make it sound decent-then he or the bar owner need to do something-or just not worry about it-which appears to be the state of things.

Why should the owner spend any money to fix it-when nobody is using it?  That is just money out of his pocket.

[Matt Jarema]

Ivan, I hear you.  A sound guy just set up the current system to make it easier for bands/duos to set-up.  He is not employed by the bar to run the system. I've talked to many folks that tried to use it but everyone prefers their own PA.  I'm not expecting him to spend more money but I was asked for advice.  The PA our duo uses always sounds great and we never have issues.  This is why we prefer to bring our own.  I'm just trying to help him out.  The guy who set-up the in house system insists that it sounds good and people aren't eq-ing it correctly.  I have to disagree.  Running everything flat with a properly set signal on a mic does not sound good at all.  So like you suggested, there has to be a bad component somewhere.  It's a tricky situation because the guy who set it up is in denial.  

[Dick Rees]

Stop trying to be a social worker and just play your tunes.

[Ivan Beaver]

Unless you are willing to pay for the repairs-then there is not much you can do.

And it doesn't matter what we think the problems may be-none of us are going to fix it for free.

It is what it is-let it go.  Sorry, but some people just don't care about the job they do-once the check clears

[Matt Jarema]

Dick Rees wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 14:47

Stop trying to be a social worker and just play your tunes.

Good advice! However, if it sounded good, it'd make our job easier.  Less gear to haul in, less set-up time, same pay.  

The owner kind of confides in us regarding certain situations as we play there every other week.  He asked me what could be done about the situation which is why I'm asking you guys.  

[Ivan Beaver]

Matt Jarema wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 14:00

The owner kind of confides in us regarding certain situations as we play there every other week.  He asked me what could be done about the situation which is why I'm asking you guys.

Without knowing the problem (other than it sounds bad) there is no way to offer any kind of suggestion-untill a specific problem is found.

That would require a knowledgeable person to do some troubleshooting.  Normally the logical person would be the person who installed the system-but that appears to be out.

Again I say-If he thinks the problem is that people are using it wrong (eq etc) then ask him to show how to do it-or to make it sound decent.  If he can't, then there is some other problem.

[Brad Weber]

Ivan, maybe it's time for a "Why Bars Buy Three Sound Systems" article.

[Ivan Beaver]

Brad Weber wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 15:00

Ivan, maybe it's time for a "Why Bars Buy Three Sound Systems" article.

Except they don't buy 3 systems.

They buy one.  Then it starts to have problems and they think the guy that designed/installed it is to expensive.

So they get "Joe" who works with the local "band" to have a look.

He rewires things and makes it worse-but thinks he has it fixed.

Then Dick comes in and sells them a new "special" piece of gear that is supposed to fix all the problems.

In the meantime every band that comes in tries their hand at "fixing" it.

Now the whole system is "tied in a knot" and nobody will claim responsibility.

The bar owner contacts a legit company for a price on a new system and they are to expensive.

So bar owner just gives up and tells the bands to bring their own gear if they don't like it.

As long as he is selling beer-he doesn't care.

Then he gets caught for something and the bar closes.

New owner comes in and redoes the place-including the sound system (maybe ).  

Then the whole story starts again.

Now I am talking the typical bar.  Not the more upscale places who have national talent coming through all the time.

And I am sure there are exceptions to the rules-but in general that is the story-my appologies to anybody on this forum who does a good job with an installed system in a bar.  

They won't put any money into the sound system-but let the beer cooler break down and it will be fixed the next day

[Dick Rees]

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 14:39

Then Dick comes in and sells them a new "special" piece of gear that is supposed to fix all the problems.

Thanks for the referral.  

[Ivan Beaver]

Dick Rees wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 15:44

Ivan Beaver wrote on Wed, 16 June 2010 14:39 Then Dick comes in and sells them a new "special" piece of gear that is supposed to fix all the problems. Thanks for the referral.

I was going to call the buys Tom Dick and Harry-but I figured that Tom Young would get made at me-so I skipped that one.

Hey-if you can sell them something-go ahead-whether they need it or not.

I see that all the time- "Well the guy at the music store said these would make us sound better"  "Can you hook it up and tell us what it does"  Ya know-the magic box.

He MUST know-because he works at the MUSIC store  
Sorry

[Matt Jarema]

I'm sure this owner would invest into getting things fixed properly.  This is a really cool place with really great food, atmosphere and people. Not your shot/beer bar.  I just think he made a mistake not knowing about this sort of thing.  SO, my suggestion will be to have the components checked out by a qualified technician before making any other investments. Up until they came up with the idea of having a sound system for the musicians, I've never heard of Technomad speakers.  These particular speakers are made for outdoor use and I've tied into them with our PA a while back before they brought in the subs.  They sounded OK after tweaking out the tin can mid sound.  I mostly just keep the eq flat and notch for feedback on our speakers.  Usually I don't have to touch anything as far as the eq is concerned.  With the installed Technomads, Eq-ing was a must to make them sound OK.  Just thought this was interesting considering they're pricey speakers.  

Well, I'll just make my suggestion and like Dick said, just play my tunes.

[MIKEHARRIS]

surprised at the Technomad...i thought they were all weather speakers

[Gus Housen]

Sounds like the Bar owner went to sound guy and said. "I have $x- amount of money to spent" sound guy looked in Closet and This is what I have for $x. So maybe he hooked it up and got a resonable sound When he set it up for dj and Karaoke that the owner origanally planned.
Honestly though it sounds like the tweeters are out.. i just looked over a technomad installation and the tweeters were out sounded as you describe.