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Author Topic: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost  (Read 6714 times)

(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #20 on: April 28, 2010, 11:15:33 am »

I guess its just the bar band scene. Another reason I need to upgrade and get out of it...but where to go next...
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

Dick Rees

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2010, 11:17:54 am »

benjamin fisher wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 10:15

I guess its just the bar band scene. Another reason I need to upgrade and get out of it...but where to go next...


Nowhere but up.......
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Dave Rickard

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #22 on: April 28, 2010, 11:20:08 am »

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 27 April 2010 14:42

James, you say you get paid atleast half due to your "48hr  policy". You enforce this how? Just like any other clause in any sort of "contract", how do you enforce it without making it into a bigger deal than what it is. KEEPING IN MIND that these are shitty bar gigs.

Thanks for everyones posts, I'm thinking it all over.


Put your "business hat" on.  You enforce it by not booking with them again until it is paid.  Why work at forming an alliance with deadbeats?  Is that what you want your business to be?

If you lose that client, find a better client.  If there are no better clients, then your market can't support your business.  

You're in Columbus right?  Maybe your market is saturated with other fine companies who are established?  Maybe you haven't established the chops and gear to support better gigs?

This is a business, and if you can't operate with a reasonable business model in your market, then it's not viable.

You've got some tough thinking to do.

----------------

We use the 50% non-refundable deposit  for gigs that don't yet have a history with us.  I would immediately move this client to "deposit status".  Keep the status quo with other bands if it's working fine.

Good luck.
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Dave
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Dave Dermont

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #23 on: April 28, 2010, 11:48:32 am »

Bill McIntosh wrote on Tue, 27 April 2010 21:57

My contract specifies a deposit, which I vary (or even waive) depending on the client.  If they cancel, no refund.  But to be fair, if I cancel or don't complete the event, they are entitled to a full refund.

That way they see we both have skin in the game.  It may not make a difference in your case, but is something to consider.


One question.

How is holding on to someone's money, then giving it back if you breach a contract having 'skin in the game'?

Just wondering.

DD
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Stuart Pendleton

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #24 on: April 28, 2010, 12:05:42 pm »

Dave, I thought that too but having to refund it all if he doesn't complete the gig was mentioned.  If he means he does 3 hours of a 4 hour show and the console dies without a backup, so he cancels and refunds all the deposit and worked 3 hours for free,  then maybe he has something in the game.

But more so, I think he had a "talking point" without a lot to back it up when push comes to shove.
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(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #25 on: April 28, 2010, 12:56:55 pm »

Thanks guys, I have some decisions to make on a couple different issues. Appreciate the input
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

Adam Schaible

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #26 on: April 28, 2010, 01:12:11 pm »

Stuart Pendleton wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 11:05

Dave, I thought that too but having to refund it all if he doesn't complete the gig was mentioned.  If he means he does 3 hours of a 4 hour show and the console dies without a backup, so he cancels and refunds all the deposit and worked 3 hours for free,  then maybe he has something in the game.

But more so, I think he had a "talking point" without a lot to back it up when push comes to shove.


Agree'd.  Lots of vendors do this though -- it's straw man.  I do require a deposit for bar bands unless they are booked within a week of the gig and I have the date open - mainly because by the time I can get a check in the mail or meet up with them the date is only a day or two away.  My depsoit is pretty small though, if I'm charging $500 I might ask for $50.  You'd be surprised how far a $20 check in the mail will push them.

Not that the $20 makes much of a difference to you, but it's more than money.  They are more likely to remember their responsibilities to you and are more likely to read the agreement.  If they cancel on you once, up the deposit.  Think of it like a bank with overdraft.  The first one or two is cheap but then they get expensive.

If they push back about the deposit, it's ok to waive or reduce it, but be honest and respectful.  If they can't swing $20 as a band, then they may not be worth it to you overall.

Also, my prices are on the low side ($250-$300 for a 1 over 1 bar rig) but some of the best advice I got on here -- get one or two of the band members to help you load in and out.  I don't want to do the work by myself and this policy lets me do what I enjoy, and do less of what I hate (loading).  This will let you make more overall and you'll be more connected with the members, and most of them don't mind.
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Ned Ward

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #27 on: April 28, 2010, 04:32:31 pm »

Ben - sorry this has happened to you.

On corresponding with the bands, how man times do you check in with them after booking a date to confirm?

While it may not solve all your cancellations, it may be helpful if you're being booked more than 2-3 weeks out to call them or meet with them as a reminder - can be to ensure they haven't added a second drummer, baliphone section, etc. but also reminds them about the gig in a good way vs. a nudge way. Remember, many, not all musicians are creative folks, but not necessarily the best with dates and numbers...

We do a similar thing when our band books a bar - we call 1 week prior to confirm the show, and then to get details on when we can load in, who will be there, etc. When I set the date in my iPhone, I add an alert 1 week prior to call and another 2 days prior to get all our gear together.

This may help you out on limiting cancellations, but also can build stronger rapports with the bands.
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(BJ) Benjamin Fisher

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #28 on: April 28, 2010, 04:47:16 pm »

Good idea Ned, I need to start calling and "checking in" with these maroons.

Adam, I will probably start doing a small $25-50 deposit unless I've been working with you and you have had no hiccups. This has got to stop!
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BJ Fisher
Stealthy Sound
Columbus,OH

Bill McIntosh

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Re: Bands Cancelling, Money Lost
« Reply #29 on: April 28, 2010, 09:20:13 pm »

Stuart Pendleton wrote on Wed, 28 April 2010 12:05

Dave, I thought that too but having to refund it all if he doesn't complete the gig was mentioned.  If he means he does 3 hours of a 4 hour show and the console dies without a backup, so he cancels and refunds all the deposit and worked 3 hours for free,  then maybe he has something in the game.

But more so, I think he had a "talking point" without a lot to back it up when push comes to shove.


Your first point is correct, although I have not had to refund yet.  Call it marketing, since I was thinking more about 2 or 3 day corporate events than bar gigs.

Maybe it's not of any value, but no one has complained about it yet.  However, if my gear fails and screws up the event -- it's my bad for not doing proper preventative maintenance.
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