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[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Jeff, such as this YFMM cable?
http://www.audiopile.net/products/Mic_Instr_Cables/MP_Adapto r_Cbls/Two-fers/YFMM_and_YMFF/YFMM_and_YMFF_cutsheet.shtml

[Art Welter]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 14:58

I dont have the opportunity to play with these before gigs, and have no band to experiment with during a practice and I assumed testing these on pre recorded music would be pointless and/or difficult to really learn what does what. I know there arent universal settings, I just need to learn what does what and how it works. I also know that these are like any other "effect", if you can hear it, its probably too much. I'll keep reading and learning, I just needed a push in the correct direction

Jeff already suggested what you need to do, play with your equipment.

Set up your board, plug in a set of headphones, a microphone, and try out different settings on your voice and dynamic music tracks.

Use solo pieces of music, like piano, bass, etc.

Use your voice over instrumental stuff. Hear the difference when you squash the main mix compared to squashing your voice independently from the  tracks.

Learn what 1-3 dB of compression sounds like compared to 10 dB.

Do it now.

Report back later.

[Patrick Tracy]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 14:58

I often have drums that ring out too long and/or have a wah wah kind of sound. I'm more concerned about gates for these, obviously.

Gates built into compressors are often better at raising expectations than meeting them.

[Jeff Wheeler]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 17:26

Jeff, such as this YFMM cable?

Yes, I use exactly those cables.

[Jason James]

Jeff, great trick, thanks for sharing. I'll have to try that if I find myself with an open channel. I try to stay on middle ground by not hitting the comp hard enough to piss off the singer while getting enough to help the vox sit right in the mix.

Back on topic here. Ben the long and short of it is... at least in my mind..
The comp will take the loudest peaks and reduce them. The RATIO knob tells the comp how to do that. 4:1 reduces the sound by 1db for every 4db it lets thru. The THRESHOLD sets overall of how many db you are reducing. So as a singer or bass is playing at their loudest set these knobs so that you are reducing say...4 db. 4:1 ratio is a good place to start. If your losing too much dynamics (feeling) then reduce the threshold or ratio. Experiment with your ears here. The attack lets thru or reduces the attack on the sound source. A great place to experiment is with an uncompressed bass track. You should be able to all but get rid of the attack, the pluck of the bass strings. Let thru enough to sound good. Release is the speed the compressor turns off. All comps have different features but basicly work the same.

Gates, usually just have one knob to set the "how quiet" the gate closes. Sometimes a fast / slow button, sometimes a sensativity knob. For toms, kick set to fast and use enough gate to make the kick sound punchy. It may sound kinda cut off in the headphones but should sound good out front. For toms, enough to keep them from ringing too long and messing with the kick/ bass gtr or feeding back.

Hope this helps. Use your ears more than your eyes. If it sounds good.... it is.

[Greg Cameron]

Jason James wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 18:53

The RATIO knob tells the comp how to do that. 4:1 reduces the sound by 1db for every 4db it lets thru.

Actually, that's not correct. A 4:1 ratio means that for every 4dB above the threshold setting, the compressor will only allow for 1dB of gain at the output. So that's 3dB of reduction for every 4dB in. If you use the logic you're implying, then a higher ratio setting would result in *less* gain reduction.

Jason James wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 18:53

The THRESHOLD sets overall of how many db you are reducing.

The threshold set the point at which the gain reduction kicks in based on the *input* level. I has nothing to do with the overall level reduction beyond when reduction is triggered.

Jason James wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 18:53

Gates, usually just have one knob to set the "how quiet" the gate closes. Sometimes a fast / slow button, sometimes a sensativity knob.

Good gates have controls to set threshold for opening, speed of attack and release, hold time, attenuation level when closed, and frequency selection for trigging. Basic gates like those found on dbx 266XL and 166XL compressors have only knobs for trigger level and attenuation any may not be very useful for some situations. I highly recommend you read the links I posted earlier in the thread.

Greg

[Jordan Wolf]

Jason James wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 21:53

The RATIO knob tells the comp how to do that. 4:1 reduces the sound by 1db for every 4db it lets thru.

Flip-flop that...here's a hypothetical situation:

Say the uncompressed signal is 100dB; a ratio of 4:1 would yield a compressed output of 25dB - that is, for every 4dB of input, 1dB is output.

Quote:

The THRESHOLD sets overall of how many db you are reducing.

The THRESHOLD determines at what signal level the compressor kicks in.

Quote:

The attack lets thru or reduces the attack on the sound source.

The ATTACK setting determines how long after the signal exceeds the THRESHOLD that the compressor kicks in.

Quote:

Release is the speed the compressor turns off.

Pretty much; it's the compliment to the ATTACK knob, just for the end of the signal instead of the beginning.

I love experimenting with compression - it never gets old.  Keep up the learning, Jason.  I've got a bunch to do, too.

[Jason James]

Thanks Greg for setting it straight. I was kinda shooting from the hip and hoping someone would clarify. It's one of those things where it's kinda easy to do but explaining it is a little different.

Eddie Van Halen, how exactly do you play that kick ass guitar solo? What's the logic behind it all?

Mostly trying to get the thread on topic which seemed to be "what do these knobs do?" "How do I use them?"

Threshold and Ratio do effect how many db you are reducing the signal.... but otherwise...what Greg said.

Jordan...your right, you never stop learing.

[Andy Peters]

Jordan Wolf wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 19:23

Quote: The attack lets thru or reduces the attack on the sound source. The ATTACK setting determines how long after the signal exceeds the THRESHOLD that the compressor kicks in.

This is not quite correct. I'll be rather pedantic with the definition, but it's important to understand what's really going on. Compression controls might (read: might) make more sense ...

The misconception is that the compressor somehow "waits" some time after the signal exceeds threshold, and then immediately the gain reduction (as determined by the ratio) is applied.

Think about that. If that was true, then the gain change would be quite weird, as the signal suddenly dropped in level a bit after you heard it. Imagine ducking a channel on the fader -- you hear the signal, you process it, it's too loud, you drop the fader 10 dB. You can imagine how weird that sounds.

"Attack time" should be more correctly called the "attack time constant," because that's what it is. And this is why some compressors have their attack and release controls labeled in units of dB/ms. The gain reduction doesn't change immediately. Instead, it ramps from none to the final amount in a time interval determined by the  attack time.

So if you set your dbx 1066 attack time to 1 dB/ms, then if the level above threshold and the ratio determine that the final gain reduction should be 6 dB, then it will take 6 ms to ramp to that amount from zero. The ramp is linear, meaning that at 3 ms the gain reduction will be 3 dB. if you set the attack time to be 0.1 dB/ms, then it will take 60 ms to reach that 6 dB of gain reduction; in other words, this is a slower attack time.

Release time is the same, except it's the ramp time required to return the gain cell to unity after the signal goes below threshold.

Got it?

-a

[Jordan Wolf]

Andy Peters wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 23:45

Jordan Wolf wrote on Tue, 13 April 2010 19:23 Quote: The attack lets thru or reduces the attack on the sound source. The ATTACK setting determines how long after the signal exceeds the THRESHOLD that the compressor kicks in. This is not quite correct. I'll be rather pedantic with the definition, but it's important to understand what's really going on. Compression controls might (read: might) make more sense ... The misconception is that the compressor somehow "waits" some time after the signal exceeds threshold, and then immediately the gain reduction (as determined by the ratio) is applied. Think about that. If that was true, then the gain change would be quite weird, as the signal suddenly dropped in level a bit after you heard it. Imagine ducking a channel on the fader -- you hear the signal, you process it, it's too loud, you drop the fader 10 dB. You can imagine how weird that sounds. "Attack time" should be more correctly called the "attack time constant," because that's what it is. And this is why some compressors have their attack and release controls labeled in units of dB/ms. The gain reduction doesn't change immediately. Instead, it ramps from none to the final amount in a time interval determined by the  attack time. So if you set your dbx 1066 attack time to 1 dB/ms, then if the level above threshold and the ratio determine that the final gain reduction should be 6 dB, then it will take 6 ms to ramp to that amount from zero. The ramp is linear, meaning that at 3 ms the gain reduction will be 3 dB. if you set the attack time to be 0.1 dB/ms, then it will take 60 ms to reach that 6 dB of gain reduction; in other words, this is a slower attack time. Release time is the same, except it's the ramp time required to return the gain cell to unity after the signal goes below threshold. Got it? -a

Thanks for the in-depth explanation, Andy.  That does make more sense now.

To the OP: there is another compression parameter called the KNEE that can really help keep a compressor from "pumping" while not having to fiddle with the other controls too much.  Some, like the dbx, have a switchable knee (either hard or soft...er, "Overeasy") while others, like the FMR Audio RNC, have a continuously-variable knee.  A "hard knee" is preferable for things like drums, whereas a "soft knee" is preferable for sources such as vocals, where a more-gradual onset of compression is desired.