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Author Topic: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?  (Read 32997 times)

Josh Ricci

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #40 on: April 08, 2010, 02:20:46 pm »

Adam Schaible wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 07:23


That said, anyone have experience with the B&C 21SW152?  Doesn't Yorkville use this in one of their subs?



Just purchased a pair for a DIY project. Haven't had a chance to load them and power them up yet, but I don't believe they are going to disappoint.
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David Morison

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #41 on: April 08, 2010, 02:24:55 pm »

Jeff Wheeler wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 12:58

I am satisfied with the cabinet dimensions of the SRX subwoofers.  I suspect the box could shrink and change vent dimensions, and the low-end be beefed up with EQ, to still produce useful output if you really wanted a smaller cabinet.  I am not convinced there is any compelling reason to use a different driver.  This will be a huge upgrade from the current subs anyway.


Fair enough. In that case you would be able to get the 2268s to reach a little deeper - the 360l per pair I picked worked for getting the other 2 drivers down to 35ish Hz, but is probably a bit smaller than the 728.
All the best,
David.
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Josh Ricci

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #42 on: April 08, 2010, 02:27:53 pm »

Paul O'Brien wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 09:53

All this discussion about which driver is superior is sorta missing the point here though. The customer in question won't spend big money and by the sounds of it both he and visiting bands are more impressed with quantity than unseen quality, so wouldn't it make more sense to give him a pair of double 18's with slightly less cutting edge but still very good drivers for about the same cost? If the main source music is typical rock band stuff then uber low response isn't needed anyway so the B&C or Definimax drivers would be more than sufficent.  



This...I agree with.

A set of 4 good quality B&C's or Eminence's will offer better bang for the buck than only 2 2268H's even if it is a better driver technically. In a 2 on 1 situation it's almost always the 1 that loses.

I seem to recall that Beyma's big 21" 21SW1600ND is going for $399ea a few places. That could be an option.
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Adam Schaible

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #43 on: April 08, 2010, 02:30:43 pm »

2268's go for $400 or more right?
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Jeff Wheeler

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #44 on: April 08, 2010, 03:46:13 pm »

The price of comparable drivers is about the same honestly.  Two cheaper drivers, like the 4018LF, also cost about the same as one 2268H.  A pair of them might look more efficient than one 2268H on paper / in WinISD, but once you heat them up that is no longer true.

While it is correct that bar-bands and patrons "hear with their eyes" and Art's remark is not lost on me, I do not think I want the owner to spend more money on that "look factor" when he can get what he needs in a single 18, which is actually what he has now (though they are cheap Pyle Pro subs.)  He has a whole lot of "sounds like shit factor" to worry about before he spends time and money making it look impressive.

It does need to go to 35Hz because for example, in April the venue calendar includes:
* 3 nights with one band each
* 2 nights with "dance music" / DJ
* 13 nights with karaoke
I think their entertainment strategy is totally wrong for a 200-capacity venue but that's a larger issue and one that he does not listen to anyone about.  But in any case, he put the house PA in to save money on the DJ/karaoke bullshit, which occupies way more dates on the calendar, so if it cannot do that effectively there is no point in upgrading.
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Tom Reid

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #45 on: April 08, 2010, 03:51:44 pm »

I think it wise to fuse any driver you put in there regardless if it can deal with a night of DJ or not.
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Adam Schaible

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #46 on: April 08, 2010, 04:19:01 pm »

Jeff Wheeler wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 14:46

The price of comparable drivers is about the same honestly.  Two cheaper drivers, like the 4018LF, also cost about the same as one 2268H.  A pair of them might look more efficient than one 2268H on paper / in WinISD, but once you heat them up that is no longer true.

While it is correct that bar-bands and patrons "hear with their eyes" and Art's remark is not lost on me, I do not think I want the owner to spend more money on that "look factor" when he can get what he needs in a single 18, which is actually what he has now (though they are cheap Pyle Pro subs.)  He has a whole lot of "sounds like shit factor" to worry about before he spends time and money making it look impressive.

It does need to go to 35Hz because for example, in April the venue calendar includes:
* 3 nights with one band each
* 2 nights with "dance music" / DJ
* 13 nights with karaoke
I think their entertainment strategy is totally wrong for a 200-capacity venue but that's a larger issue and one that he does not listen to anyone about.  But in any case, he put the house PA in to save money on the DJ/karaoke bullshit, which occupies way more dates on the calendar, so if it cannot do that effectively there is no point in upgrading.


I wouldn't be so quick to discount the 4018lf.  1:1 they might not fare as well as the 2268 but 2:1 .. I think you're mistaken if you believe a single 2268 will be more efficient or handle more heat.  True, a 2268 has two voice coils, but so do 2 4018's.  I have my doubts that differiental drive is 200% more efficient at dissipating heat than a standard VC.

Look at some charts Silas has made with his dual 4015lf sub in comparison to commonly available production subs if you have the time.
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Jeff Wheeler

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #47 on: April 08, 2010, 04:34:09 pm »

I put in a DCX2496 and EP4000 amps for the PA.  The current subs survive only because I set the limiter pretty carefully, and the SoundFactor 25 mid/high boxes become audibly dull as the HF protection starts to bleed power away after a while.  I agree that a $100 a night idiot DJ might do damage by accident, and a better DJ might do damage out of frustration with the equipment, but the way I have abused it on wall-to-wall busy Saturdays indicates that the current gear is not easily torn up with my configuration.

I am fairly confident that two SRX718S-alike boxes will provide more than adequate output to send the door man/designated volume cop rushing to yell at any idiot DJs if the bass anywhere near enough to damage 2268H drivers.  Also there is only one 20A circuit for the whole PA so a breaker would trip before the voice coils got smoked.  And I put the snake fan-tail in a location that causes most people to setup their FoH equidistant from the two subs, and the stage is basically a big bass trap below about 125Hz, so DJs sitting in either position should not need to fight with the PA to hear what they want to hear.

One thing I do not like about the way I have the existing equipment deployed is the SF25 horns are way brighter on-axis than at FoH if they are pointed the right direction to cover the room.  That combined with insufficient height causes the HF to be painfully loud, so I often find myself fiddling with the PA's LPF knob and giving up on the high-end.  But this is as much a product of the shitty speakers as anything else, and it will not get fixed until the owner realizes it is a problem in the first place.

If he would have spent the $8k I suggested he would not have these issues, but instead he spent $3k, so he gets what he paid for and will continue to waste money replacing crappy gear he shouldn't have bought.

I think we are getting a new snake next week, 16x8, to replace a 16x4 with 4 dead channels he had sitting in storage (owner used to be a DJ, which is part of the problem, he thinks he knows things sometimes.)  I suggested a 24x8 because, for example, later this month we may have to do karaoke/band/karaoke/band due to a scheduling error on his part with a charity event that already spent money advertising "karaoke contest $100 prize" on a night when he booked band also.  So he will probably spend $400 on a new EWI snake and within weeks of it getting here, we will have a night where I run out of channels and have to put up a second snake, or re-patch things several times unnecessarily, or do my karaoke crap from behind the PA, because he wants to save $100 and not buy the 24 channel snake.  Go figure.  Also, instead of paying $100 to convert 4 of the fan-tail returns to TRS connectors, he is going to buy $30 worth of XLR to TRS adapters.  And buy them again 5 times a year as bands steal or lose them.  And deal with the headache of calling me for help when bands show up and there are no adapters, because they are idiot bands that just expect TRS ends to plug right into the TRS jacks on their mixer, with no adapters, patch panels, or outboard.

Sorry for the rant, just to give you an idea of how this situation is, "buy once, cry once" is a concept he refuses to learn.
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Jeff Wheeler, wannabe sound guy / moonlight DJ

Jeff Wheeler

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #48 on: April 08, 2010, 04:43:42 pm »

Adam Schaible wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 15:19

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the 4018lf.  1:1 they might not fare as well as the 2268 but 2:1 .. I think you're mistaken if you believe a single 2268 will be more efficient or handle more heat.  True, a 2268 has two voice coils, but so do 2 4018's.  I have my doubts that differiental drive is 200% more efficient at dissipating heat than a standard VC.

Look at some charts Silas has made with his dual 4015lf sub in comparison to commonly available production subs if you have the time.

The 2268H is -3dB from power compression at RMS power, while most cheap sub drivers are roughly -6dB, including a lot of Eminence products.  Also the 4018LF runs out of Xmax much more easily than a 2268H, and that is a legitimate consideration for DJ-duty subs, much more so than subs that are used for kick drum and a little bit of bass guitar.

Seriously, there is no comparing cheap Eminence shit to serious sub drivers.  Eminence makes plenty of good things, but the stuff you can buy off Parts-Express, you get what you pay for.  A $200 driver is a $200 driver, and a $400 driver is, not surprisingly, about twice as useful.

Oh, and Silas's double 15 is not for this kind of use either.  I do not doubt his ingenuity and I am sure he makes plenty of money with those subs, but there is a huge difference between a kick drum sub and a good DJ-duty sub, and Silas' double 15s lie somewhere in-between.
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Art Welter

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Re: anyone built their own cabinet for 2268H subwoofers?
« Reply #49 on: April 08, 2010, 11:03:14 pm »

Jeff Wheeler wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 14:43

Adam Schaible wrote on Thu, 08 April 2010 15:19

I wouldn't be so quick to discount the 4018lf.  1:1 they might not fare as well as the 2268 but 2:1 .. I think you're mistaken if you believe a single 2268 will be more efficient or handle more heat.  True, a 2268 has two voice coils, but so do 2 4018's.  I have my doubts that differiental drive is 200% more efficient at dissipating heat than a standard VC.

Look at some charts Silas has made with his dual 4015lf sub in comparison to commonly available production subs if you have the time.

The 2268H is -3dB from power compression at RMS power, while most cheap sub drivers are roughly -6dB, including a lot of Eminence products.  Also the 4018LF runs out of Xmax much more easily than a 2268H, and that is a legitimate consideration for DJ-duty subs, much more so than subs that are used for kick drum and a little bit of bass guitar.

Seriously, there is no comparing cheap Eminence shit to serious sub drivers.  Eminence makes plenty of good things, but the stuff you can buy off Parts-Express, you get what you pay for.  A $200 driver is a $200 driver, and a $400 driver is, not surprisingly, about twice as useful.

Oh, and Silas's double 15 is not for this kind of use either.  I do not doubt his ingenuity and I am sure he makes plenty of money with those subs, but there is a huge difference between a kick drum sub and a good DJ-duty sub, and Silas' double 15s lie somewhere in-between.

Jeff,

One important detail, Silas' double 15s 4015LF are in a too small box, in a larger box the 4015LF goes low, and the 4018LF goes lower yet, but requires a larger box.

All the 18 inch speakers we discussed have very similar efficiency.
The 2268H, by virtue of  design and almost double the X max, could put out approximately what two of the less expensive drivers can, and take up about half the space, though from the sim, to get the best LF performance it could use a slightly larger box than the other drivers.

That said, doubling bass drivers gives 3 dB more efficiency, so the 2268H would require double the power to equal two of the other drivers.

In simple terms, 2000 watts to one 2268H, would be equaled with 500 watts each into a pair of 4018LF, or B&C 18TBX100.

I would not want to bet that the 2268H, even with it’s heat wicking design, would exhibit less thermal compression at 2000 watts than the other speakers would at 500.

In a portable system, size and weight matter, both for transport and storage.

In an install, extra size may be an advantage for stacking and perceived loudness.
Doubling cones saves a lot of amplifier and wall power, and puts less heat into the  room.

Art Welter
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