ProSoundWeb Community

Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Down

Author Topic: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's  (Read 17911 times)

Bennett Prescott

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 138
  • This text is personal!
    • Bennett Prescott Dot Com
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #10 on: March 09, 2011, 09:00:54 pm »

As far as upgrading you mixer, I have an Allen & Heath ZED 24, and really like it. If you want built-in  effects, they make the ZED 22FX. At about $800, does not cost a whole lot more than the CFX you are looking at, and IMO, is an order of magnitude better.
Dave,

For another $200, why not just get the MixWiz?

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=safari&rls=en&q=Allen+%26+Heath+MixWizard&oe=UTF-8&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=13043188730165787178&sa=X&ei=pjB4TcPKN8WclgeN45SOCA&ved=0CC0Q8gIwAA#
Logged
-- Bennett Prescott
Director of North American Sales
ADRaudio d.o.o.
Cell: (518) 488-7190

"Give me 6dB and I shall move the world." -Archimedes

Nate Armstrong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #11 on: March 10, 2011, 09:23:24 am »

I would sell the 15 band EQ and get a dual 31 for monitors. I do not find that the speaker processor interfaces are useful for real time changes during a show.
I put it on ebay but it didn't sell. I think I am going to relist it for $10 just so it will.

I am going to get 3 EWI lbd 101 and a EWI snake, and a road case for now. 
I will have to wait a bit until I can afford a new board since I will be spending more than I expected on the other gear.

Thanks for all the help.
Logged

Rob Spence

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 3430
  • Boston Metro North/West
    • Lynx Audio Services
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #12 on: March 10, 2011, 09:45:47 pm »

I am going to get 3 EWI lbd 101 and a EWI snake, and a road case for now. 
I will have to wait a bit until I can afford a new board since I will be spending more than I expected on the other gear.
One place you may be able to save is on the snake by hunting down a used one.
I am big supporter of the EWI stuff (I have several snakes and lots of cases) but spending a little less on the snake may get you to a better mixer sooner.

It always seems that there are 16x4 snakes selling in the marketplace though I can't seem to find one now. So, I suggest that you post a WTB (want to buy) in the Marketplace and see if someone has one they just didn't list yet? Who knows, and it doesn't cost anything to try.

By all means, order the DIs though.
Logged
rob at lynxaudioservices dot com

Dealer for: AKG, Allen & Heath, Ashley, Astatic, Audix, Blue Microphones, CAD, Chauvet, Community, Countryman, Crown, DBX, Electro-Voice, FBT, Furman, Heil, Horizon, Intellistage, JBL, Lab Gruppen, Mid Atlantic, On Stage Stands, Pelican, Peterson Tuners, Presonus, ProCo, QSC, Radial, RCF, Sennheiser, Shure, SKB, Soundcraft, TC Electronics, Telex, Whirlwind and others

Nate Armstrong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2011, 10:58:06 am »

UPDATE 
I ordered a Mixwiz wz3 so now my rig consists of

4 K 10's  ( 2 for monitors )
3 K Subs
DBX Driverack PA
shure 57's and 58's
shure drum mic kit  ( got it ultra cheap, will use until i can get better )
EWI  Di's   
16x8x100 snake
dbx 31 band eq for monitors

I have  2 questions.

It would be nice to have a separate Subwoofer master control  is there a way to do this and have my Tops in stereo with the Drive rack PA since it only has 2 inputs  ?


Question 2 -
Being able to setup faster is a big plus for me.
a mass connect is way out of my budget , but I was curious if i could use  4 DB25 to xlr  snakes as quick connects. this would leave my snake un tampered with.

8 channels of the XLR MALE Snake End ->  attached to XLR female- DB25  -> DB25 coupler  -> Wall plate on rack ->  | Inside rack -> db25 to XLR male -> console 

doing the above twice, 8 channels + 8 channels giving me 16   

http://i.imgur.com/eJt4W.jpg  (  attempt at a diagram )

I could also make one more for the 8 snake returns  for a total of 3 mounted db25 couple plates  on the rack case.
Logged

Ned Ward

  • SR Forums
  • Hero Member
  • *
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1414
  • Redondo Beach, CA
    • Our band's page on Facebook
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2011, 11:31:09 am »

Congrats and way to ask questions here before buying. The Mixwiz has a lot of fans here and is a huge upgrade - you'll be able to hear the sound differences quick. Shure drum mic kit - It's certainly fine for now, and if you're playing in smaller bars/clubs, there's usually not a need to mic the drums through the PA as much as keyboard or vocals.

To get separate control on your subs, search "aux fed subs" on the boards here - you may not be able to process the subs through your Driverack, but you'll be able to select which channels go or don't to your subs, which can help clean up the mix.

On setting up faster:
I didn't see a case in your purchases; EWI sells some great mixer cases that have the mixer on top with an adjustable angle, with XX number of rack spaces underneath. That way, you can leave your mixer, EQ, etc all hooked up. If you get a tall enough one with casters, you can roll it into venues and store the entire snake in the bottom already hooked up (be sure to secure the snake to the side of the case for strain relief. Side benefit - a taller case can be tipped over into a car/truck/van vs. having to hoist it up; if you have a ramp, even better.

I've seen those DB25-XLR adapters for snakes, and while they may have their purposes, I think you'll be happier with less connectors inbetween your snake and the mixer.

EWI is excellent; I've also had very good experiences with Redco.com for custom length cables - you spec the wire and connectors and length. Handy if you don't know how to solder (that would be me). They will also wire up a rack panel with your choice of panel I/O and then cables in the back to your desired length. Pricey, but an option. At that point, may be worth learning how to solder.

Good luck, and enjoy the forums - lots of great advice here.

One last bit:

Where you can, try to not put things in the mixer at smaller clubs. It sounds counterintuitive, but in smaller spaces, the drums, guitar amps, bass amp will be more than enough and vocals and keyboard (if they don't have an amp) will be all you need to go through. I tried for several years to put everything in our band (bass, keys, 4 vocals, 2 guitars, kick/snare/OH) through our mixer in bars for 75 people. Tons of setup, little time to soundcheck, and usually 1 song in I'd have to reach over and pull down everything except vocals and keys.

Since you have 3 subs, a little LF enhancement of bass and kick can work, but don't worry about micing the entire kit in smaller spaces - I've yet to find a lot of drummers that can't play loud enough for bars/pubs...
Logged

Jay Barracato

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 2025
  • Solomons, MD
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #15 on: June 23, 2011, 01:46:50 pm »

UPDATE 
I ordered a Mixwiz wz3 so now my rig consists of

4 K 10's  ( 2 for monitors )
3 K Subs
DBX Driverack PA
shure 57's and 58's
shure drum mic kit  ( got it ultra cheap, will use until i can get better )
EWI  Di's   
16x8x100 snake
dbx 31 band eq for monitors

I have  2 questions.

It would be nice to have a separate Subwoofer master control  is there a way to do this and have my Tops in stereo with the Drive rack PA since it only has 2 inputs  ?


Question 2 -
Being able to setup faster is a big plus for me.
a mass connect is way out of my budget , but I was curious if i could use  4 DB25 to xlr  snakes as quick connects. this would leave my snake un tampered with.

8 channels of the XLR MALE Snake End ->  attached to XLR female- DB25  -> DB25 coupler  -> Wall plate on rack ->  | Inside rack -> db25 to XLR male -> console 

doing the above twice, 8 channels + 8 channels giving me 16   

http://i.imgur.com/eJt4W.jpg  (  attempt at a diagram )

I could also make one more for the 8 snake returns  for a total of 3 mounted db25 couple plates  on the rack case.

Nate,

A couple of thoughts:

I run most of my shows dual mono. I like to process L/R separately to gain a little more eq control but there is really no difference with just daisy chaining your K10's. I would probably run the summed master output channel of the mixwiz into one side of the Driverack and then to your 2 FOH speakers. You can either use a hard Y cable at the output of the driverack or use the out on the back of the K10 to daisy chain. Then I would use aux 6 to run the subs with no processing. They can also just be daisy chained together. That will leave the other side of the driverack PA to eq one mix for monitors fed off of aux 1.

It is a little different to what most people are used to seeing but if you only have one or two monitor mixs, I would suggest putting the K10's on stands as side fills rather than leaving them on the floor.

Another hint is that if you are running dual mono for FOH you can create pseudo-groups by hard panning your channels. I commonly make a vocal group and an instrument group. Other than a few creative patches on the keyboards than jump from side to side, i have never felt I am missing much by not mixing in stereo.

Finally, I am a firm believer in looms. Rather than trying to find a cheap disconnect, go ahead and use the XLR's. There is a reason they are the industry standard. Figure out where you are going to place the stage box of your snake, then group mic cables of the appropriate length to run from different areas of the stage to the stage box and tape them together with friction tape. Labeling the ends also helps for a consistant setup. For a rock and roll band, I would usually have 1 loom for the drum kit, one loom for the backline instruments, and one loom for the vocals.
Logged
Jay Barracato

Chuck Simon

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1139
  • Pittsburgh, Pa.
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #16 on: June 23, 2011, 02:31:57 pm »

Quote
I am going to let you in on an industry secret.

Secret?  You must be kidding -  their name is mentioned almost daily on this forum, and they do offer a lot of bang for the buck.  My only question - Do they offer a choice of soup or egg roll with their product? ;)
Logged

Nate Armstrong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #17 on: June 23, 2011, 02:48:23 pm »


if you're playing in smaller bars/clubs, there's usually not a need to mic the drums through the PA as much as keyboard or vocals.



On setting up faster:
I didn't see a case in your purchases; EWI sells some great mixer cases that have the mixer on top with an adjustable angle, with XX number of rack spaces underneath. That way, you can leave your mixer, EQ, etc all hooked up. If you get a tall enough one with casters, you can roll it into venues and store the entire snake in the bottom already hooked up (be sure to secure the snake to the side of the case for strain relief. Side benefit - a taller case can be tipped over into a car/truck/van vs. having to hoist it up; if you have a ramp, even better.

EWI is excellent; I've also had very good experiences with Redco.com for custom length cables - you spec the wire and connectors and length. Handy if you don't know how to solder (that would be me). They will also wire up a rack panel with your choice of panel I/O and then cables in the back to your desired length. Pricey, but an option. At that point, may be worth learning how to solder.

Good luck, and enjoy the forums - lots of great advice here.

One last bit:

Where you can, try to not put things in the mixer at smaller clubs. It sounds counterintuitive, but in smaller spaces, the drums, guitar amps, bass amp will be more than enough and vocals and keyboard (if they don't have an amp) will be all you need to go through. I tried for several years to put everything in our band (bass, keys, 4 vocals, 2 guitars, kick/snare/OH) through our mixer in bars for 75 people. Tons of setup, little time to soundcheck, and usually 1 song in I'd have to reach over and pull down everything except vocals and keys.

Since you have 3 subs, a little LF enhancement of bass and kick can work, but don't worry about micing the entire kit in smaller spaces - I've yet to find a lot of drummers that can't play loud enough for bars/pubs...
1)  Defiantly looking at the smaller club and bar market. I have mostly just been doing my local gigs other acts. 75-150 people but there is alot of over flow areas the stage \ listening area is super super small.    For drums  I normally just do  kick , one 57 between snare and hi hat & rarely 1 over head, DI out of bass amp, sometimes mic guitar amp, L&R di keys and vocals.   most of the drum kit is left out but i like to have it there if needed.  I would say most of the time 0 drums would be more than fine.

A larger company that out sources me to do lighting at some of there larger gigs.  They mic every thing at this venue, and suggest to me I should as well.   I would say using discretion each night would be fine esp at the amount of pay.

2)

In the past,  I would use a skb rack and that tiny mackie mixer would fit perfect in a turntable case I had ( kind of sketchy ).The shop that is ordering me the mixwiz  has a good deal on a rolling rack with top rack for a mixer. I am waiting for them to get a version with more rack spaces.   

I don't know why I didn't think of keeping the snake in the rack case. makes so much sense now,  I am so happy I didn't buy the rack in the store and decided to wait.  before this post i probably would of only got like a 16u due to weight, lately i have been doing everything solo , either in my old cargo caravan ( low ceiling) or 6x10 trailer w/o ramp.  tipping in on its side would be doable unlike hoisting it in

Thank you ! 


Logged

Nate Armstrong

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 228
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #18 on: June 23, 2011, 03:08:37 pm »


Nate,

A couple of thoughts:

I run most of my shows dual mono. I like to process L/R separately to gain a little more eq control but there is really no difference with just daisy chaining your K10's. I would probably run the summed master output channel of the mixwiz into one side of the Driverack and then to your 2 FOH speakers. You can either use a hard Y cable at the output of the driverack or use the out on the back of the K10 to daisy chain. Then I would use aux 6 to run the subs with no processing. They can also just be daisy chained together. That will leave the other side of the driverack PA to eq one mix for monitors fed off of aux 1.

It is a little different to what most people are used to seeing but if you only have one or two monitor mixs, I would suggest putting the K10's on stands as side fills rather than leaving them on the floor.

Another hint is that if you are running dual mono for FOH you can create pseudo-groups by hard panning your channels. I commonly make a vocal group and an instrument group. Other than a few creative patches on the keyboards than jump from side to side, i have never felt I am missing much by not mixing in stereo.

Finally, I am a firm believer in looms. Rather than trying to find a cheap disconnect, go ahead and use the XLR's. There is a reason they are the industry standard. Figure out where you are going to place the stage box of your snake, then group mic cables of the appropriate length to run from different areas of the stage to the stage box and tape them together with friction tape. Labeling the ends also helps for a consistant setup. For a rock and roll band, I would usually have 1 loom for the drum kit, one loom for the backline instruments, and one loom for the vocals.

Thank you for the info. That seems like a great way to run the pa.  I am def going to try this out. I really like the fact that I would have more control over the monitors.    would make for faster speaker setup as well. 

The looming technique also sounds great.  all these small little tricks add up to a lot of saved time. 

Is friction tape different from gaffers tape ?  could you post a link of a good source


All these tips are so helpful  thank you guys so much.. If you guys have any other suggestions or tips keep em coming.

Thanks again.
Logged

Mark McFarlane

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Offline Offline
  • Posts: 1865
  • Middle East
    • Arkose Records
Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 01:09:37 pm »

...

Is friction tape different from gaffers tape ?  could you post a link of a good source

FWIW, on the snake recommendations, which you have already resolved,... I originally bought a 24*8*100', then a 50' 6 channel Whirlwind mini (I love it), then a 16*4*100.  I rarely take the 24*8 out, it's huge to pack (separate steamer trunk) and a pain in the rear to wrangle around.  I think I'm gonna get a Whirlwind 12 channel mini snake soon and redo 2 of the channels as returns.  This will probably handle 50% of my gigs and the Whirlwind minis are tiny by comparison to a regular snake and work great as a drop-snake for larger events.

If I was to do it all over again I'd buy the 16*4*100 first, as you did, and then rent when I needed something larger.

Gaffers tape is typically cloth-based (at least it looks like cloth) with an adhesive on one side that will release (and stay on the cloth) when you pull up the tape so you don't end up with adhesive residue where you don't want it.  If you leave the tape on for a long time (months) it will leave some adhesive residue.  Gaffers tape is more like 'well behaved' duct tape than friction tape which is typically sticky on both sides.  Good gaffers tape is pretty expensive, I've paid up to $25/roll at a camera supply shop, but it is still worth it compared to the time one might spend cleaning tape residue (assuming you are anal retentive and likely to clean the tape residue).

I always get slightly pissed when some 'helpful person' tries to tape down my cables with duct tape while I'm not looking...

I've never compared brands of gaffers tape for their helpful properties (strength, stickiness, and amount of residue versus time left in place), perhaps someone else can make a recommendation.

Logged
Mark McFarlane
ARKOSERECORDS
Turn down what's too loud.

ProSoundWeb Community

Re: Advise on Snakes and DI Box's
« Reply #19 on: July 16, 2011, 01:09:37 pm »


Pages: 1 [2] 3 4   Go Up
 



Page created in 0.05 seconds with 22 queries.