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Author Topic: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?  (Read 15547 times)

Elliot Thompson

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #20 on: March 12, 2010, 10:12:23 pm »

At the subwoofer shootout held in NYC, the JTR Growler managed to withstand the Powersoft K10 being clipped for short periods throughout the duration of the test without driver damage.

Powersoft claims the K 10 will deliver 2000 watts (126.49 volts) per channel in an 8-ohm load. With a 2-ohm load minimum capability, there shouldn’t be any cutbacks based on the limitation of the power supply from such a light load.

I would imagine the new woofer would be able to withstand that type of power longer without the fear of driver damage compared to the older version.


Best Regards,
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Elliot

Duane Silveira

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #21 on: March 13, 2010, 11:27:42 am »

It seems those super long stroke, rediculous power handling car audio subs are crossing over into our pro audio world Rolling Eyes  Confused
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #22 on: March 13, 2010, 01:50:55 pm »

Art Welter wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 20:17

Thanks for the answers.

I understand that speakers are not resistors, an impedance, frequency and an excursion plot would answer my questions much more effectively.

At 35 Hz will the voice coil burn up before the 3 inch peak to peak excursion limit is reached?

I thought the Growler was a folded horn, what port are you referring to?

When the impedance curve is equal to the nominal impedance of 8 ohms, what is the long term sine wave power level that will burn up the voice coil?

Art Welter



Using the maximum recommended amplifier power, it is nearly impossible to break or damage a Growler.

Elliot Thompson wrote on Fri, 12 March 2010 21:12

At the subwoofer shootout held in NYC, the JTR Growler managed to withstand the Powersoft K10 being clipped for short periods throughout the duration of the test without driver damage.

Powersoft claims the K 10 will deliver 2000 watts (126.49 volts) per channel in an 8-ohm load. With a 2-ohm load minimum capability, there shouldn’t be any cutbacks based on the limitation of the power supply from such a light load.

I would imagine the new woofer would be able to withstand that type of power longer without the fear of driver damage compared to the older version.


Best Regards,



Wow, I can't believe its been over 3 years since that PSW subwoofer shootout. Seems like yesterday. Since then there have been hundeds of Growlers, coast to coast, used day in and day out yet there has only ever been a few that have ever broke.


Duane Silveira wrote on Sat, 13 March 2010 10:27

It seems those super long stroke, rediculous power handling car audio subs are crossing over into our pro audio world Rolling Eyes  Confused


Yeah and the original Growler driver was no slouch.
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Rain Jaudon

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #23 on: March 14, 2010, 12:32:00 am »

So this is the new lighter weight Growler you told me about back at Mardi Gras?

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Pascal Pincosy

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #24 on: March 15, 2010, 01:23:19 am »

Felix Truong wrote on Wed, 10 March 2010 18:08

Interesting.  

In terms of output, the growlers used to trail the UCS1's by a tiny bit according to the maryland shootout.  I wonder how they are now with the new drivers..

I'm just going to point out (again) that the testing at the Maryland shootout was done in an unscientific manner and amplifier output levels were not properly matched. Point being is that any conclusions about max output levels of the various subwoofers involved in the shootout are bogus.
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Jeff Permanian

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #25 on: March 15, 2010, 01:49:17 am »

Rain Jaudon wrote on Sat, 13 March 2010 23:32

So this is the new lighter weight Growler you told me about back at Mardi Gras?




Yes sir.
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Rory Buszka

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #26 on: March 21, 2010, 09:08:22 pm »

Duane Silveira wrote on Sat, 13 March 2010 11:27

It seems those super long stroke, rediculous power handling car audio subs are crossing over into our pro audio world Rolling Eyes  Confused


This is a fairly uninformed comment. According to the paper by Marshall Leach on which designs such as the LAB Subwoofer, EAW "SuperSubs", and the "Punisher" design (popular in Europe) are based, the most favorable driver for a low-frequency acoustic horn is actually a driver with smaller cone area, higher moving mass, and more motor strength. Pro-audio drivers as you are familiar with them suit none of these three parameters - they typically try to push a large, lightweight cone while using a motor containing as little magnetic and flux conducting material as possible to keep weight at a minimum. When these drivers are applied to low-frequency acoustic horns, they are quickly swamped by the demands of producing high pressure, and the horn does not provide the maximum possible benefit to the driver. That's at best; at worst, a large-diameter cone driver with a lightweight diaphragm will undergo failure of the diaphragm at the pressures involved.

The horn design of the JTR Growler is actually compromised somewhat to take advantage of the displacement capability of a high-excursion driver to extend its low-frequency response without requiring an extremely large mouth area. That's why arrays of two Growlers still work well at the lowest frequencies, even though optimum horn loading is not maintained per accepted horn theory. The compromise that's probably at work is that the flare is not designed for maximum efficiency over its loaded passband, so that when the horn does transition to direct-radiator behavior the transition is less noticeable. That's what it seems like to me.

The real-world performance of these subs leaves no question of whether the approach works, and just because the type of driver used isn't the typical 'pro audio' driver, that's no reason to look down on the Growler.
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Jeff Babcock

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #27 on: March 26, 2010, 03:03:26 pm »

Duane Silveira wrote on Sat, 13 March 2010 11:27

It seems those super long stroke, rediculous power handling car audio subs are crossing over into our pro audio world Rolling Eyes  Confused


Duane, this is a very misinformed comment.  

I recall previous postings where you apparently loaded a driver into some homebrew horns that was totally unsuited for the tasks and consequently sent them to their death.  Making statements about the credibility of the Growler driver seems a little bit much given your apparent inexperience with the subject.

Jeff P knows a thing or 2 about loudspeaker design and has an established background in this industry.  The driver is specifically optimized for the cabinet design.

Phillip_Graham

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #28 on: March 26, 2010, 07:03:36 pm »

Rory Buszka wrote on Sun, 21 March 2010 21:08

...they typically try to push a large, lightweight cone while using a motor containing as little magnetic and flux conducting material as possible to keep weight at a minimum.


It should be pointed out that the raw BL product of the average professional LF driver is approximately double that of an equivalent HiFi woofer.
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Duane Silveira

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Re: 2010 JTR Growler does 2000 watts RMS?
« Reply #29 on: March 26, 2010, 10:05:15 pm »

Whoa,whoa Jeff. This was a tongue in cheek comment, and certainly not a misinformed one. I fully understand the need for most horns requiring a much different set of thiele small parameters compared to standard ported cabinets. I certainly have NOTHING against growlers. Im sure the driver is perfectly mated to the cabinet. Im just stating that most horn drivers resemble and spec closer to a typical car sub than a pro sub. Yes i did waste a bunch of time screwing around with some home brew horns before stepping up and building labs. As a final comment i will say that that does seem like the trend nowadays, and not just horn drivers, but reflex drivers....longer stroke, more powerful magnets, more expensive materials, higher power handling, while trying to keep the maximum efficiency. One example is the Faital pro with upwards of 14mm xmax if i recall.  Please dont read into my comment so seriously, it was not meant to be.....Duane.
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