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[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

I've got a budget of $200 for a new effects processor. Ive been using the on-board effects of my Yamaha MG166cx, but I just upgraded and purchased a Mackie SR24 VLZ from Art and now need effects (mostly for vocals and whatever else is needed). I plan to use this in one of the two Aux's available for effects. How do I hook up my current junk Behringer DSP2024 to use in this manner?

From your guys' experience, do you prefer the TC Electronic M350 or the Lexicon MX200 for this kind of use? What are the pros and cons to these units? Please dont recommend any other units, as these are the two that I have narrowed it down to, and are still within my small budget. The M350 looks to have a tap feature for delay that I'd really like, but not sure about the MX200 concerning that

Thanks in advance

[Marvin Chin]

I like the flexibility that the Lexicon MX200 gives you with different routing options, separate lights and more controls for each channel independently, and most importantly, it has real presets!

Although the M350 says there are presets, I don't really consider them presets.
The M350 definition of preset is: set each knob to 12 oclock and then try each effect.
The MX200 definition of preset is: Preset #1 is already tweaked and saved with all knobs already set (pre-set!) to give you a Big Pop vocal sound, #2 is pre-set for... etc..
There's a list of 99 of these telling you what the preset is good for and you can save 99 of your own.

For someone who doesn't like to tweak, the presets on the MX200 are great, for someone who likes to the tweak, MX200 gives much more options and flexibilty. I found the presets really help as a starting point with something that already sounds decent and you just tweak it to taste. When I had an M300 (M350 predecessor) I had a hard time getting good sounding effects out of it (granted that I may not have known what I was doing back then , so I sold it and got the MX200 and at least it had presets to get me going with something that sounds good. And yes, the MX200 does have tap tempo.

I also like the MX200's Librarian program that you install on a computer and connect to to the MX200 via USB.
It shows you the exact settings of each preset so you can get ideas of what they've done to make that particular sound
and then can edit it to make your own using theirs as a starting point. I do find the MX Librarian is alitle quirky, though, and I haven't found it reliable for live use, but for seeing/editing/setting/saving presets it is useful.

Just some reasons why I like the MX200 over the M350.

[Dick Rees]

Marvin Chin wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 20:33

I also like the MX200's Librarian program that you install on a computer and connect to to the MX200 via USB. It shows you the exact settings of each preset so you can get ideas of what they've done to make that particular sound and then can edit it to make your own using theirs as a starting point. I do find the MX Librarian is alitle quirky, though, and I haven't found it reliable for live use, but for seeing/editing/setting/saving presets it is useful. Just some reasons why I like the MX200 over the M350.

Yes, it is a fine unit for the money.  But the above highlighted statement is a candidate for understatement of the year.  The software editor flat doesn't function.  That's why mine is for sale.  I needed something that could go into the "blind" rack spaces under a mixer in a rolling rig and be operated from the laptop which also takes care of a GraphiQ and some other stuff.  It was a no-go though it functions fine with the faceplate controls.

[Dave Rickard]

benjamin fisher wrote on Mon, 08 March 2010 18:28

I've got a budget of $200 for a new effects processor.

If you're patient you can pick up a used TC M-ONE XL within your budget.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Marvin and Dick, thanks for the info. Between those two, it sounds like the MX200 may work best for me. I dont really want to have to tweak much, presets are great, and ease of use is a big concern of mine as this is a whole new chapter for me.

Dave, you bring up a good point that I somehow looked over. It appears I can find a MX200 used for just over $100 which is great. Spending $200 or so on a used unit could definitely get me into the M-One as mentioned or maybe even a D-Two...however, I am affraid they may be a little over my head and a bit unnecessary for my application. Although I dont know the real benefits of such units.

But I think the MX200 will fit my needs pretty well. From my understanding, I could dial in two effects, one on the left and one on the right channels and send them separately to each of my two aux's using a basic insert cable correct? Such as: single end of the insert cable from the chosen Aux Send, and then the dual end of the insert cable to the input and output of the processor right? How do I know which end goes where (tip/ring and input/output)? This would work the same way for my compressors and gates, except on the individual channel inserts right? Sorry for the dumb questions but as I said before this is the first time I have had to use external effects. Thanks  

[Marvin Chin]

Hi BJ, when I first got the MX200, I had to read the manual about 20 times carefully to understand the different routing options. The manual has good example diagrams of the common setups:

http://www.lexiconpro.com/product.php?id=12#downloads

What's good about the MX200 is it's flexibility and lots of different effects, but that does come with more learning curve in beginning. But once figured out the basics, the flexibility is very useful. There are differnt setups for different effects. The insert cable is generally only used only if the MX200 is being used in a compressor setup and the TRS end goes into the INSERT jack on a mixer. Generally tip=send,ring=receive. For most other effects, like reverb and delay, generally it's parallel setup using regular straight 1/4" TRS to 1/4" TRS cable - aux send out the mixer, aux return (or return to a channel) on the mixer, then mix the effect into the mix to taste.

Note near the last half of the manual the presets are either all for a serial setup or all for a parallel setup and that can be changed globally on the unit; the default is serial and should be changed to parallel if that's what's needed.

[Jeff Wheeler]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 02:46

From my understanding, I could dial in two effects, one on the left and one on the right channels and send them separately to each of my two aux's using a basic insert cable correct?

You would use an insert cable if you want to insert the effect on a channel or bus via an insert i/o jack.  For aux routing, just send the aux signal into the MX200 and return it via any convenient input on the mixer, e.g. a channel strip or aux return.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Thanks again Marvin, good stuff.


I'm still a bit unclear on how to hook this unit up. But I am at an understanding with the channel inserts for a compressor. I run my setup in mono. On this board (according to internet pictures since It wont be here until Fri), it has 6 Aux sends (I intend on using 1-4 for monitors, and 5&6 for effects). I understand coming out of the board (Aux 5 for example) into the efx input using a regular trs-trs cable. Now, I come out of the efx and into the mixer aux returns (which are stereo). But heres my confusion. The Stereo Aux Returns are only 1-4, and does it matter if I plug into L or R? Please help me understand this. Thank you

[Jeff Wheeler]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 13:40

The Stereo Aux Returns are only 1-4, and does it matter if I plug into L or R? Please help me understand this.

You would use the L/Mono aux return connectors, which will route the signal to both the L and R inputs on that aux return, as long as you do not plug anything into its R jack.

Keep in mind that you can also bring the FX signal back in on a channel strip, so you will have a fader for it.  There is no requirement that you use the "aux return," which is really just a confusing name for an input with less knobs and routing choices than a full-featured channel strip.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Ok on the L-R question, but why are they Aux returns only 1-4? How do I get the signal to be controlled by the aux 6 (for example) knob on every channel?

I prefer this method as it is what I have always used and finally have enough aux's for 4 monitors and 2 effects

[Jordan Wolf]

Benjamin,

I was recently in a similar situation to yours.  The small place I work for has the MX200, but I wasn't a fan of using a button to cycle through the various types of reverb, etc.  So, I opted for an M350.  I waited and watched various places and scored a barely-used one off of Fleabay for $100.  Talk about a deal!

I already have an M-One XL that I enjoy using very much, but I like to have a processor with controls that don't require a single dial and paging through menus to access.  My M-One XL is great for the presets I have and I feel that the M350 will be great for drums, backing vox, and especially for those times when I need to quickly set up an effect on-the-fly.

Both the MX200 and the M350 have tap tempo available on the front of the unit; any good FX unit should have a pedal jack in the back.  Do note: the M350 uses a TRS jack so that it can tap tempo and bypass/mute the unit using a combo pedal.  

Also note that you cannot link tap tempo via MIDI with the M350.  I circumvented that little design flaw by using a TS-dual TS adapter and soldering a TRS connector on there, wired for tap tempo only.  That let me use my TS tap pedal for both units and keep them in-sync with each other.

[Jared Bartimus]

You can send the signal out on Aux 6 out and use Aux Return 1 as the input.  The reasons why are explained in the manual for the board.  You control the level that is going out to the processor with the aux send knobs and the level that is going to the speakers using the aux return knobs.

Also, some boards may have 6 aux busses but you can only use either 3/4 or 5/6 on a per channel basis.  I know the 1604 is like that.

[Jeff Wheeler]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 14:04

Ok on the L-R question, but why are they Aux returns only 1-4? How do I get the signal to be controlled by the aux 6 (for example) knob on every channel?

That's why I said it's a confusing way to name things.  The AUX knobs on your channel strips control the channel signal level to the AUX bus inside the mixer.  Then there is an AUX send master pot someplace, so you can adjust the whole bus up and down before it goes to the AUX send jacks (1-6.)

The "aux return" is totally separate.  You can read about it in the manual http://www.mackie.com/pdf/srvlzpro_om.pdf on page 23, items 48 - 52.  Basically, "aux 1" has NOTHING to do with "aux return 1."  What you will do is connect your FX returns to the aux return 1/2 jacks, then turn up the stereo aux return 1/2 knobs to around "U" or +0dB gain.  Adjust from there if you need more or less signal.  Good gain structure is just as important with effects as it is with the rest of your system (which is why they give you a knob.)

Or connect the FX return to a channel input.  I know I keep saying this, but it's so much nicer.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Ok I think I understand what you guys are saying. I need to look into the manual more. I am open to exploring my options, its just all of my prior experience has come through the Aux's. If I bring it back into a channel and use the fader, how do I apply it to only certain things (say, delay on vocals only)?

I do appreciate the help, and willing to read and research, but hearing you guys explain it tends to be more help than reading the manual (which I usually do anyway)

[Jay Barracato]

If you are going to use effects on vocals you will want to turn them off during speaking bits between songs. I find that far easier to do when the effects are returned to channel strips.

Jay

edit- also makes it easier to pfl the wet signal.

[Jeff Wheeler]

benjamin fisher wrote on Tue, 09 March 2010 14:41

If I bring it back into a channel and use the fader, how do I apply it to only certain things (say, delay on vocals only)?

Say you have your delay send to the FX unit on AUX5, and the return from the FX unit goes to channel 20.  Only turn up the AUX5 knob on the vocal channel(s).  Now route channel 20 to the mix buses, and do not route that channel to any auxes.  Then adjust the amount of delay in your mix by pushing the channel 20 fader up and down.  You can also mute channel 20 between songs when the band talks to the audience.  As Jay mentioned, you can also press the PFL button on channel 20 to hear the wet signal.

Once you try it once it will seem obvious, and is easier than adjusting the aux 5 knob for the channel all the time, simply because the fader is easier to grab, adjust, and mute.

[(BJ) Benjamin Fisher]

Great Jeff, got it, thanks.

Aux 5 or 6 to efx in, then efx out to channel strip. All using TRS cables I assume. Or would this unbalanced dual patch cable work?

  http://accessories.musiciansfriend.com/product/Live-Wire-141 4-Dual-Patch-Cable?sku=330486

Or...
 http://www.audiopile.net/products/Patch_snakes/MTPS/MTPS-4/M TPS-04_cutsheet.shtml
Anyone?

[Stavross (Sam Buck)]

I like my M350 with the exception of the tap tempo button. The sob is too small and is by a knob that makes it hard for my fat fingers to get at. Yes you can use a pedal, but I hate using pedals.

As said before the presets are not presets, but all I use it for is tap delay so that doesn't matter to me.