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Author Topic: What'd you guys do?  (Read 8270 times)

E. Lee Dickinson

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #10 on: February 24, 2010, 10:03:47 AM »

Yeah, the Toyota forums have been going crazy on two fronts; the owners who are going in to hysterics over the fact that their cars are, suddenly, unsafe to drive - vs the ones who thing the government is trying to kill Toyota to save their investment in GM.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that there are two very different things going on. The first was a very accident in which a floormat wedged an accelerator, killing a car full of people. (The same rental car had been previously returned to the dealership by another renter who told the receptionist "This car has the wrong floormat in it, it jammed up the accelerator.")

This incident was in no way a problem of manufacture or TMC.

However, it fanned the flames of a bunch of people who say their Toyotas hit the gas on their own.

Here's where Toyota seems to have made a mistake: They initially denied that clame, blaming the carpets. Then they said "Also, certain gas pedals may be slow to return to home position when they get worn."

Now they seem to be admitting there might be an actual acceleration problem, but I'm unclear if there is any actual evidence of that or if they are trying to CYA and not look like they're ignoring complaints.

Either way, I remember when Dateline did a piece about Grand Cherokees running away from their drivers. Studies were offered up that said drivers panic and stomp on the accelerator.

So, who knows.

There are a bunch of people calling for the removal of all CTS gas pedals - the CTS design seems to be vastly superior to the competition, with metal bearings and a hall-effect position sensor instead of a mechanical potentiometer.

If there is a real problem, my bet is on a bug in the ECM programing; but it has to be something so specific (certain combination of fuel flow, oxygen flow, pedal position, driving mode, etc) that it only shows up in a tiny portion of vehicles.

My 2008 Tundra continues to be perfect.
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E. Lee Dickinson
Advanced Visual Production Inc.
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www.avpric.com

Kristian Johnsen

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #11 on: February 24, 2010, 10:04:14 AM »

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 15:49

I had to turn off the TV yesterday because of the hearings... It turns my stomach for the politicians to rush in to rescue the ignorant public.

If Toyota gets a reputation for crashing, people will stop buying them. Instead are we now to rely on the government to be on top of automotive design?

I really do appreciate things like seat belts and ABS brakes, but this Toyota thing smells like them imposing their will onto one of the few major car companies they don't already have their thumb on.

When I was a kid, we put seat belts in our cars long before it was mandated, and all of these safety innovations, came from industry as features in more expensive models.

Not dying is pretty high on the car feature list.

JR


What about emissions? Not much of an economic incentive unless high emissions are taxed.
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #12 on: February 24, 2010, 10:04:24 AM »

John Roberts  {JR} wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 08:49

 

When I was a kid, we put seat belts in our cars long before it was mandated, and all of these safety innovations, came from industry as features in more expensive models.

JR


 Hello,

 Actually, most safety innovations came from the Automotive Racing industry.

 Hammer
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Al Limberg

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2010, 10:06:32 AM »

The March issue of Car & Driver has an interesting article concerning the problem.  Most interesting is the fact that brakes still overpower horsepower every time, to the point that a Camry at full acceleration starting at 60 mph, stops in a shorter distance than a new Ford Taurus in standard operating mode from 60 mph.  
For years around here we've referred to some problems as "a clear cut case of operator headspace".  Apply the brake, place transmission in neutral (or even park - it won't lock up) or depress the clutch.  So many people are much more adept at texting or putting on makeup while driving rather than actually driving.....
On the other side, Toyota's "drive by wire" accelerator lacks some features that even lowly Chrysler has instituted.


Rant off/
Al
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2010, 10:08:48 AM »

E. Lee Dickinson wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 09:03

Yeah, the Toyota forums have been going crazy on two fronts; the owners who are going in to hysterics over the fact that their cars are, suddenly, unsafe to drive - vs the ones who thing the government is trying to kill Toyota to save their investment in GM.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that there are two very different things going on. The first was a very accident in which a floormat wedged an accelerator, killing a car full of people. (The same rental car had been previously returned to the dealership by another renter who told the receptionist "This car has the wrong floormat in it, it jammed up the accelerator.")

This incident was in no way a problem of manufacture or TMC.

However, it fanned the flames of a bunch of people who say their Toyotas hit the gas on their own.

Here's where Toyota seems to have made a mistake: They initially denied that clame, blaming the carpets. Then they said "Also, certain gas pedals may be slow to return to home position when they get worn."

Now they seem to be admitting there might be an actual acceleration problem, but I'm unclear if there is any actual evidence of that or if they are trying to CYA and not look like they're ignoring complaints.

Either way, I remember when Dateline did a piece about Grand Cherokees running away from their drivers. Studies were offered up that said drivers panic and stomp on the accelerator.

So, who knows.

There are a bunch of people calling for the removal of all CTS gas pedals - the CTS design seems to be vastly superior to the competition, with metal bearings and a hall-effect position sensor instead of a mechanical potentiometer.

If there is a real problem, my bet is on a bug in the ECM programing; but it has to be something so specific (certain combination of fuel flow, oxygen flow, pedal position, driving mode, etc) that it only shows up in a tiny portion of vehicles.

My 2008 Tundra continues to be perfect.



 Was your Tundra part of a recall?  Some Tundra owners were offered ALL of their money back because of an Engine/Transmission problem?  

 Hammer
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E. Lee Dickinson

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #15 on: February 24, 2010, 10:13:06 AM »

Yeah, my truck is on the recall list for having the medal shim added to the pedal.

I'm not going to do it unless the pedal starts sticking, though. Everyone who has had the "fix" complains that the pedal has no friction feel and flops all around.

My dealer also tried to remove my all-weather mats, but I showed that they were properly fitted and installed and declined that "service" as well.
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E. Lee Dickinson
Advanced Visual Production Inc.
sound - lighting - video - design
www.avpric.com

Dick Rees

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Re: What'd you guys do?
« Reply #16 on: February 24, 2010, 10:14:41 AM »

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/RunawayToyotas/toyota-accelera tion-problems-new-evidence-imprisoned-minnesota-toyota-camry -owner/story?id=9903455

Currently imprisoned driver (Lao immigrant) said his car took off on him.  Now they're looking at a case review as he was driving a Toyota.  Three died in the other car.
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #17 on: February 24, 2010, 10:18:45 AM »

Al Limberg wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 09:06

The March issue of Car & Driver has an interesting article concerning the problem.  Most interesting is the fact that brakes still overpower horsepower every time, to the point that a Camry at full acceleration starting at 60 mph, stops in a shorter distance than a new Ford Taurus in standard operating mode from 60 mph.  
For years around here we've referred to some problems as "a clear cut case of operator headspace".  Apply the brake, place transmission in neutral (or even park - it won't lock up) or depress the clutch.  So many people are much more adept at texting or putting on makeup while driving rather than actually driving.....
On the other side, Toyota's "drive by wire" accelerator lacks some features that even lowly Chrysler has instituted.


Rant off/
Al



  Hey Al,

  Much like sound equipment Manufacturers overstating their specs, some of the Japanese Auto Companies have overstated their specs....for years. They have been fined Hundreds of Millions of Dollars.

  This thought, that the drivers are to blame for all of these Toyota related incidents are being proven wrong. Even the Toyota Executives have admitted so much in their testimony in Court.

  There is clearly a problem, and Mr. Toyoda was aware of it. Possibly, the reason why he didn't want to testify?

  Hammer
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Charlie Zureki

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #18 on: February 24, 2010, 10:22:27 AM »

E. Lee Dickinson wrote on Wed, 24 February 2010 09:13

Yeah, my truck is on the recall list for having the medal shim added to the pedal.

I'm not going to do it unless the pedal starts sticking, though. Everyone who has had the "fix" complains that the pedal has no friction feel and flops all around.

My dealer also tried to remove my all-weather mats, but I showed that they were properly fitted and installed and declined that "service" as well.




 No... I was talking about the Engine/Transmission problem. There was a recall by Toyota to purchase all of a run of Tundras back from their owners... they gave them FULL credit on another Toyota vehicle.
Hammer
 
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E. Lee Dickinson

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Re: What'd you guys smoke?
« Reply #19 on: February 24, 2010, 10:25:20 AM »

No, not me.  I was subject to the service bulletin on the differential, which I had to have rebuilt. That took a day, and cost me no dollars or hassle.

I didn't even hear about Toyota buying trucks back...
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E. Lee Dickinson
Advanced Visual Production Inc.
sound - lighting - video - design
www.avpric.com
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