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Author Topic: Help Identify and advise  (Read 3868 times)

Derek Konop

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Help Identify and advise
« on: February 22, 2010, 01:40:36 am »

I have been lurking around these forums for a long time and want to thank everybody up front for the knowledge available here.

Here's my current issue,

Got these boxes for dirt cheap. Used them a few times and they sound pretty bad.  I run sound for my smallish bar band, usually crowds of around 100 people.  Wondering if you guys could help identify what these are and what I should do with them.

Drivers are peavey 18" BW's not Low riders.  No other badging or logos.  Very boomy and ringy at 100 to 125 hz. Tried crossing over anywhere from 80 up to 130 and dumped 100 and or 125 on a graphic to help with the ringing but have been unable to get them to sound decent. Don't have a parametric or an RTA to utilize.

Power is a mackie fr800 bridged into the pair.  Not alot of power, but I am not pushing the amp to clipping. High passed at 40hz.

Wondering if I could put the Drivers in a simple double 18 reflex box and get a decent sound out of them for the small crowds we entertain. Or different drivers in the boxes.  Or just get rid of them and put the $ towards some quality subs.

Any advice is much appreciated.

Derek

I'll snap some better pics tomorrow.
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Scott Deeter

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #1 on: February 22, 2010, 02:39:59 am »

These look similar to a HD15 I've recently seen on Speakerplans.com while wondering.

http://forum.speakerplans.com/hd15-build-pics_topic26420.htm l

index.php/fa/28256/0/

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Adam Kane

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #2 on: February 22, 2010, 10:07:04 am »

+1 on the HD15...and the Peavey driver is not on the list of suggested drivers for the cabinet.
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Jon Waller

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #3 on: February 22, 2010, 10:14:09 am »

That basic design dates from the 70's.  There was a Sunn cabinet with a Vega 18 that looked like that.  We owned some.  Not much below 70 Hz.
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Derek Konop

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #4 on: February 22, 2010, 11:35:10 am »

I had found the HD15 plans a while back but these are much bigger and the drivers are 18"

Not much below 70hz sounds about right to me, from the little bit I've been able to run them.

Derek
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Derek Konop

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #5 on: February 22, 2010, 11:59:02 am »

I forgot to mention that I got a 3rd 18" BW driver with the deal.  I'm not familiar with T/S parameters and box design, are these drivers something that would perform well in single or double front loaded reflex boxes?

I'm a carpenter by trade and have access to cheap or free build materials.  We also have a local line-x dealer who does a great job with boxes for other guys locally.

Just wondering what you guys would do with these.

Derek
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Mike Smith

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #6 on: February 22, 2010, 12:33:45 pm »

Derek Konop wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 11:59

I forgot to mention that I got a 3rd 18" BW driver with the deal.  I'm not familiar with T/S parameters and box design, are these drivers something that would perform well in single or double front loaded reflex boxes?

I'm a carpenter by trade and have access to cheap or free build materials.  We also have a local line-x dealer who does a great job with boxes for other guys locally.

Just wondering what you guys would do with these.

Derek


Sell them and use the money to buy something more effective, like B&C, JBL, or Peavey 18 Low Rider drivers. There are lots of Web resources available to help you decide on cabinet dimensions and driver attributes. Peavey, for example, posts very detailed box recommendations for the Low Riders.

Most if not all Peavey Black Widow woofers are designed for higher efficiency at the expense of low bass output. They will run out of useful excursion very quickly if you load them into vented direct radiator boxes.

I think the original Sunn boxes were called the 118SR or 118FH or some such thing. They were small, square, peak generators.

You'll probably need more power; definitely if you go to four 18" drivers...but now you're talking about a significant upgrade.
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Derek Konop

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #7 on: February 22, 2010, 12:53:55 pm »

Thanks for the advice, That's kind of the answer I had in my head already. I'll hit the peavey and partsexpress websites and check on new drivers and box designs.

Derek
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Art Welter

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #8 on: February 22, 2010, 01:59:07 pm »

Derek Konop wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 10:53

Thanks for the advice, That's kind of the answer I had in my head already. I'll hit the peavey and partsexpress websites and check on new drivers and box designs.

Derek

Since you have amp headroom, before you give up on the cabinets, try some drastic EQ. Short horns roll off like crazy, don't be shy.
As long as you are not clipping the amp, and not compressing or limiting,the Black Widows should hang in there.

Leave the 40 HZ HP in, go +6 at 40, +3 at 50, flat at 60, -6 at 80.
Underlap the crossover if it has the capability.

If you hear any "flapping" sounds, back off on the low end boost.
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John Halliburton

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #9 on: February 22, 2010, 02:04:36 pm »

Derek Konop wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 11:53

Thanks for the advice, That's kind of the answer I had in my head already. I'll hit the peavey and partsexpress websites and check on new drivers and box designs.

Derek


Not sure what your budget is, but you might call John at Acoustic Elegance and take a look at his 15" and 18" offerings:

http://www.aespeakers.com/

He's right in your area.

Take a look at the new Eminence 15" LAB subwoofer driver too, along with the other suggested drivers.

Best regards,

John
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Mike Smith

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #10 on: February 22, 2010, 02:15:44 pm »

As a side note, I forgot to mention that horn loaded bass boxes, assuming they are designed correctly to begin with, usually need to be combined in multiples for them to work effectively. Their mouth area combines and you'll extend and smooth out the low frequency response. There aren't too many "classic" folded horn designs that sound good used singly (or even sometimes in pairs).

What I'm saying is that your boxes are far from ideal but even something snazzy from that era would have trouble sounding hi-fi unless you EQ the holy heck out of it.  

So what you need is about eight or twelve or forty more of those Sunn-looking boxes...
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Mike Smith

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Derek Konop

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #11 on: February 22, 2010, 02:57:14 pm »

John Halliburton wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 13:04

Derek Konop wrote on Mon, 22 February 2010 11:53

Thanks for the advice, That's kind of the answer I had in my head already. I'll hit the peavey and partsexpress websites and check on new drivers and box designs.

Derek


Not sure what your budget is, but you might call John at Acoustic Elegance and take a look at his 15" and 18" offerings:

http://www.aespeakers.com/

He's right in your area.

Take a look at the new Eminence 15" LAB subwoofer driver too, along with the other suggested drivers.

Best regards,

John


I've heard a couple of local rigs built with the AES drivers and they sound fantastic.  Probably going to be out of my price range though.  

As far as the horn loaded boxes, I understand the basics of their design and am aware of the need for mouth to mouth stacking.  I've done lots of homework over the last few years on this site and was aware that these would probably sound like poop, but I got them for next to nothing just to see.




Art, I've tried doing all sorts of things with the graphic i have available.  Just like you are getting at, I tired boosting 50-80 and cutting 100-125 in many different ways but the boxes still honk like hell and if I boost the 50-80 too much the drivers start to flop.  I know that the wrong drivers in even a good horn loaded enclosure will suffer from excursion issues and was just wondering if these would perform well in a correctly designed ported relfex box.  But you guys have confirmed what I kind of already knew.  Sell them and move on.

I'm a peavey fan and will probably look most seriously at the Low riders for some custom boxes.  Seems like folks agree that they are not the greatest LF driver, but they are hard to beat in the bang for the buck column. Any other suggestions for $200-$250 drivers are welcome.  

I've been floundering around on the peavey site and can't find any specific enclosure designs. I've found the manual and specs for the low rider, which shows recommended box volumes and port sizes.  Does anybody have links to specific cabinet designs I could look at?

Again,
Thanks for your help and all the knowledge you guys have already offered up here @ PSW

Derek
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Paul O'Brien

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #12 on: February 22, 2010, 09:41:33 pm »

Build a pair of boxes with shelf ports at the bottom as seen in the pic below. This plan will put the tuning freq at about 40hz according to WinISD Pro and the driver will take it's full 800w rating without exceeding xmax. To convert all the units to inches simply divide them by 25.4.

index.php/fa/28275/0/
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Duane Silveira

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #13 on: February 24, 2010, 02:27:44 am »

What are your intentions with these bass bins? I call them "bins" because thats what they are...kick bins. They appear to be just an upscaled hd15. If you have researched the speakerplans forum much then you would know that these are not for sub duty...at all. You might drop down to 45hz with a huge wall of them, but one or two...forget it. If they are like the hd's then they are designed to run from about 80 to 150 hz. Build some decent horn subs and maybe stick those on top for some kick. I believe that no matter how much eq you give them they will still honk.
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Derek Konop

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Re: Help Identify and advise
« Reply #14 on: February 24, 2010, 01:04:12 pm »

I had kind of come to that conclusion already but was just looking for some confirmation.  Lots of nice rigs on speakerplans.com forums use them exactly as you said, Kick bins covering 80-200 ish wedged between subs and tops.

Selling and moving on!

Derek
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