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Author Topic: Active Line Array for Working Band  (Read 48637 times)

steve cook

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #10 on: February 20, 2010, 12:20:55 pm »

Okay, the reason I thought an array would be perfect was the coverage pattern and the small space, plus the ease of setup.  I never knew the factors that everyone has brought up.

If I am posting this in the wrong forum, I apologize.  Mod--feel free to move this.

Thanks everyone, so far, for the helpful information.

And yes, I agree about the bose system.  But for the small places we play, it seems to work adequately.
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steve cook

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #11 on: February 20, 2010, 12:23:22 pm »

And Tim, I've got a real nice cup of dark roast from Honduras for you!
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kevinnemrava

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #12 on: February 20, 2010, 12:27:42 pm »

steve cook wrote on Sat, 20 February 2010 11:33

....... we don't even bother having a FOH engineer or wedges.  It works.

..  The Bose won't cut it.  They know it.

Most of the gigs this summer will be 200-500

..2 day event for 1000-1500 people.  We're thinking of contracting that out to someone,


Hey Steve, This thread will at some point be moved to the "amateur" section of the website, but until then I would be hapy to give you a few thoughts.

Firstly, I think you doing the right direction. Hire out for those few larger shows. Let someone else to the heavy lifting, and you can worry about the music. As the band, you could even offer to help the promoter find a sound company.

If the bose work for you that is great, ask your self IF the new QSC system is, and cost, will ultimately make your band money. Sometimes, it is best just to stay at one level, and focus on making it more profitable.

you did mention that eh "directionality" of the QSC system is an issue. Why do you say this? Reading between the lines, I wonder if you are using the bose "marketing" as technical gospel. This would be a mistake.

I am also a big fan of the QRX stuff. To my ear it sounds great. But for you , and your band, there is a much larger picture to consider, then sound quality alone.
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Pat Cognitore

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #13 on: February 20, 2010, 01:52:38 pm »

steve cook wrote on Sat, 20 February 2010 06:33

Currently, we're using the Bose on sticks for the places we play, with a pair of 18's to provide some real low end.


Can you describe your current system in detail - signal flow from mixer to processing/crossover/EQ to amplifiers to speakers - models, quantities, etc.  It's possible that your not maximizing the effectiveness of your current system.  

Quote:

Most of the gigs this summer will be 200-500 people, and the only time we go 'huge' is a 2 day event for 1000-1500 people.  We're thinking of contracting that out to someone, so our gear doesn't get trashed----they tell me a LOT of beer gets sold at that one----

First thought was to roll with an EV QRX system.  I love those boxes.  But the directivity of them makes me shy away.

Now we're looking at line arrays, and that really seems to be the smart money.  Active boxes would be best, to keep things simple, and I figure 2, maybe 3 boxes per side.  On subs, I've never heard anything active that I've liked.


Can you explain what you mean by "the directivity of them makes me shy away"?  Directivity is generally considered a good thing, which is why I and several other people have asked this question.

You seem to have a lot of presuppositions about what will and will not work, but it's not clear what your reasoning is for some of the statements you've made above.
Quote:

So far, everyone has been talking about the db technologies stuff.


I'm sure the db stuff is good.  There are lots of good products out there, the name badge on the front grill is not critical - what is critical is the products suitability to the performance at hand.  There are hundreds of products on the market that can be put togther in thousands of combinations to provide audio for a few hundred people.  This stickied thread contains a list of pro audio manufacturers:

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/17828/640/

There are quite a few really knowledgeable people on these forums (not me Wink).  Stick around, read some old threads, do a search or two.  If you keep an open mind you can definitely learn a lot.
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Frederik Rosenkjær

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #14 on: February 20, 2010, 01:58:45 pm »

As many others have said, as long as you're talking about just 3 "line-array" boxes pr. side you're essentially just making a point-source split up into 3 boxes with added cabinetry/weight and phasing problems in the highs. Just make that one box instead.
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Evan F. Hunter

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #15 on: February 20, 2010, 02:04:39 pm »

I would stick with the QRx boxes. Unless you ground stack the array  Rolling Eyes you also have to worry about flying it. Get 2 QRx212's Or 2 QRx153s per side with some good subs and stack em. Power them properly and get a decent DSP.


Evan
(Owner of some QRx Boxes myself)
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Evan Hunter
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steve cook

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #16 on: February 20, 2010, 02:45:29 pm »

Pat Cognitore wrote on Sat, 20 February 2010 12:52

steve cook wrote on Sat, 20 February 2010 06:33

Currently, we're using the Bose on sticks for the places we play, with a pair of 18's to provide some real low end.


Can you describe your current system in detail - signal flow from mixer to processing/crossover/EQ to amplifiers to speakers - models, quantities, etc.  It's possible that your not maximizing the effectiveness of your current system.  

Quote:

Most of the gigs this summer will be 200-500 people, and the only time we go 'huge' is a 2 day event for 1000-1500 people.  We're thinking of contracting that out to someone, so our gear doesn't get trashed----they tell me a LOT of beer gets sold at that one----

First thought was to roll with an EV QRX system.  I love those boxes.  But the directivity of them makes me shy away.

Now we're looking at line arrays, and that really seems to be the smart money.  Active boxes would be best, to keep things simple, and I figure 2, maybe 3 boxes per side.  On subs, I've never heard anything active that I've liked.


Can you explain what you mean by "the directivity of them makes me shy away"?  Directivity is generally considered a good thing, which is why I and several other people have asked this question.

You seem to have a lot of presuppositions about what will and will not work, but it's not clear what your reasoning is for some of the statements you've made above.
Quote:

So far, everyone has been talking about the db technologies stuff.


I'm sure the db stuff is good.  There are lots of good products out there, the name badge on the front grill is not critical - what is critical is the products suitability to the performance at hand.  There are hundreds of products on the market that can be put togther in thousands of combinations to provide audio for a few hundred people.  This stickied thread contains a list of pro audio manufacturers:

http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/t/17828/640/

There are quite a few really knowledgeable people on these forums (not me Wink).  Stick around, read some old threads, do a search or two.  If you keep an open mind you can definitely learn a lot.



Thanks everyone for the input.  First, as far as directivity, isn't like 1 QRX box going to get me about 75 degrees coverage?  Obviously, then, 2 boxes would be required.  With size and cost, that's where the array idea came into play.  Forgive me for my lack of knowledge.

Second, and this is to the best of my knowledge as I don't handle set ups, but we've got 4 Bose sticks scattered around the stage.  The powered ones, with the bose subs.  We also run 2 single 18's, powered by a Crest CA9.  If we need more guitar or bass, I just toss another cab on the opposite side of the stage.  For mixing, I think it's just whatever little hand held thing you get with bose.  We don't run floor wedges, which kinda bums me out because the mix I like to hear is different from what a FOH mix would be----IE---LOTS of guitar!---

The guys are happy with the Bose system, I'm okay with it.

Lastly, about my only hands on experience has been with the QRX 153's.  I loved them.  I'd never heard a box that sounded so good for so many different types of music.  Sold mine, as I decided to put the money into guitars.  
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Art Welter

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #17 on: February 20, 2010, 02:51:21 pm »

The JBL CBT 70J  +70JE column speaker capitalizes on the line array principle and has decent output (121 dB continuous), wide range and the 55 inch line height provides  pattern control to around 300 HZ.

They are  not powered, ( but power is cheap and light now) and would require a speaker stand mount bracket.

The CBT wouldn’t give you enough output for the bigger outdoor shows, but would be a big step up from the Bose line and still would have a small form factor and more even front to back coverage than the usual speaker on a stick.

index.php/fa/28224/0/

Art Welter
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Tim McCulloch

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #18 on: February 20, 2010, 03:39:25 pm »

The concept behind the Blose column is that it imitates, to some degree, the directional characteristics of a singer or instrument in free air, i.e. rather omni at many freqs, becoming more directional as you go up the scale.  That's also part of the problem with using them for genres where such characteristics are inappropriate.

You think the 75
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Rob Spence

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Re: Active Line Array for Working Band
« Reply #19 on: February 20, 2010, 09:11:02 pm »

Tim McCulloch wrote on Sat, 20 February 2010 15:39


You think the 75
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